Job Discussion Forums

[7969]

I get asked this question at least once a day by one or more students. my typical answer is:

1. speak more, in class, or out of class with your friends
2. use your dictionary
3. learn a few new words each day
4. practice pronunciation using different tools (ie:tongue twisters)
5. make friends with a foreigner.

am i missing anything here? i'm sure many of you get asked the same question..... what's your reply?

7969

[Wocca]

I explain that fluency is very important, and recommend reading something aloud in English several OR many times. Vocabulary will naturally grow. The grammar should already be correct in the passage being practiced. Pronunciation can be developed by speaking slowly, loudly & clearly. As long as the English words are broken down into syllables, there shouldn't be too much problem with pronunciation.



No partner is required for the above practice. After reading the passage several times, the student should try to say it more "naturally" without referring too much to the written script. If the individual can also record his/ her voice, all the better. Then s/he can analysis his/her own sound afterwards. Practising in front of a mirror also has its advantages.

The Chinese tend to love karoake, so I also suggest they learn English songs by "shadowing" the words. Slow, melodious love songs are ideal.

[Roger]

It's mind-boggling for me to hear such questions! Only the CHinese bother asking me such nonsense. Advice?

Yes, of course, I go along with the idea that people should take the initiative and use English among themselves, not just with foreign faces. Unfortunately, such advice carries no conviction with Chinese - not even their Chinese English teachers practise this wisdom! They are the worst role-models - speaking always IN Chinese ABOUT English.

But I find the advice given by someone else infuriating: Read aloud? For GOd's sake, NO! NO! NO! NO!

That's what they are doing all the time, and that's why their English is halting, sluggish and their pronunciation is plain wrong. THis is what they are taught by their own teachers, and the result is what we can hear! No, they should NOT read aloud to practise English pronunciation! Have you ever listened to them doing it? Haven't you noticed their stammering and stuttering produced by their reading aloud? I suggest this only in a significantly modified version: read silently until you can read a whole sentence in one go, then switch on a tape-recorder and read it aloud while recording yourself for later use: listen to your own voice and find out what's right and what's wrong!

In general, I do not answer such questions from my students because my advice would go in one ear and come out the other.
My advice would be for them to read, read and read some more so as to get the feel for the language. As they read they can change the speed of reading to suit their needs (understanding without translating, absorbing grammar features that they have only heard about in theory). The more they read the easier their comprehension will get; once they understand they can also speak entire sentences while tripping up ever less.

This advice falls usually on deaf ears because this generation is demotivated (enforced study of English as a compulsory subject, no personal interests other than passing exams). Reading is totally out of ashion here (it wasn't always like this!). They want instant solutions to their long-extant problemjs. TV and mobile phones are their preferred communications tools.

[checkmate]

My idea's of oral English. I have been teaching Oral English for 2 years in China and students ask me the same questions as well. How to improve my oral English.
My suggestion is listening. Just listen to anything that uses English. TV, Radio, MP3, DVD.
I use this as an example. When you were young did your parents get you to recite words or phrases, read dictionaries, practice reading over and over. haha. Learn grammar. NO. They just spoke to you. How did you know what they said. You just listened. Perhaps as a child you didnt understand the exact meaning but you understood the idea. Oral language is understand sound, tones, rhythmn, intonation. How do you get this from reading. If you have bad pronunciation reading does nothing to improve it. It just solidifies it and then its harder to break.
To improve Oral English motivating students is necessary and using tools they already have helps. They all have MP3 players, cell phones, DVD players PCs etc. I get them to use these things by implementing them into my teaching. Giving my students a practical application for their skills is what I try to do. Most students already have a large vocabulary of English but they are too shy to use it. I try to encourage them by role playing, playnig games, discussions and anything I can get my hands on to get them to speak. It is difficult but once their confidence is up then it becomes easier and they continue to surprise me with their ability. No all students mind you but many.
I hope this helps

[Don McChesney]

I get them to listen to a recorded tape and read the words to themselves a couple of times. Then listen and repeat into a tape recorder. Do an A:B and B:A playback, reminding them the first time they hear their own voices they will be shocked at how they sound. Practice it a couple more times, and save the last recording.
Two months later, do it again with the same passage. Now listen to the first one, and the new one. This gives them a real measure of how they have improved. They can hear the difference.
They lose no 'face' as it is for themselves, it costs nothing, and they can do it as often as they like, even if for only 5 minutes at a time.
The improvement after 6 months is really noticeable. There is no substitute for actually speaking, even if it is scripted. Free speech easily follows, because of their confidence in their spoken English.

[dajiang]

Of course it's okay to read aloud.
What's wrong with that? Hell they should try everything that has a faint chance of succes.

Of course they don't need to yell out loud (which some do), but it's fine to try and get used to English sounds. You know, practise those tongue muscles like Li Yang says.

Anyway. There's lots they can do.
and I think all these suggestions are good...

I tell them that it's important for them to create an English environment around them, so that after class they are still subjected to using the language. How they do that is up to them.

They should read lots of books, put up posters, and English stories/words/poems up their walls. They should get together with other friends who like to practise, and go to bars where foreigners go.
Get to know some foreigners, if not in the city, do that online.
Write letters, get a penpal somewhere.
Read lots of English websites, and forums like these.

Whatever they do, they should move away from the Chinese they have around them all the time.
And of course, nothing beats travelling or studying abroad.

Dajiang

[Roger]

[comenius]

Interesting question. How does anyone learn anything? In my opinion, you can't learn how to ride a bike by reading about it. As completely boring and cliche as it sounds, if a student wants to improve their spoken English, they have to practice, practice, practice, preferably with a teacher. I think free form practice with a native speaker (not necessarily a teacher) is helpful and can definitely bring about improvement as long as the student is really paying attention. Practice with a teacher, though, is probably the shortest path to "fluency," so long as the teacher is solid and the student motivated and capable.

I know when I want to improve my golf game (as an example), I have a few choices:

1. Practice on my own, maybe referring to a magazine article with tips.

2. Play with some friends of varying ability, all of whom have opinions about what works and what doesn't. My hunch is that if any of them were actually any good, I'd be seeing them on ESPN, which I'm not.

3. Sign up for a session with a "pro" that really knows his stuff and can help me focus on the areas where I need help.

Which is most likely to help me improve most quickly? I honestly don't think learning a language is hugely different than learning other things in life. Just my opinion though!

[bearcat]

[dajiang]

Hey Rog,

[shenyanggerry]

I usually tell them that they should get three or four friends and pick a time, place and day of week. Then meet and speak together in English for fifteen minutes - no longer. After they've ben doing it for a while, they might consider extending the time.

I tell them that in a perfect world, they'd have a native speaker to practice with but there aren't enough English speakers in Shenyang to do that. I also suggest English radio, TV, films.

[7969]

a lot of good ideas and opinions here. thank you very much. 7969

[clarrie]

Sick and tired of this question and usually preface my answer with:
'You really don't want to hear what I have to say. Whatever I tell you you'll find a thousand reasons why you can't do it!'

Then I inform them of the two 'P's', PRACTISE & PRACTICE!!!

[klasies]

I speak four languages. There is no easy answer to this question. I always tell them that time is what they need. There is no magic pill, no quick fix!
Hard work and perseverance is what will improve their ability. I am losing my fluency in two of my languages! Why? Cause I seldom use them! Based on this, it is obvious that if anybody wants to improve a particular language they need to use that language everyday. How they do that in terms of the four aspects, speaking, listening, reading and writing is open to debate. As has been discussed here, most of our students do not want to do that. The select few, (who realize that future job prospects can be greatly improve if their English ability is above average, and that having a Band 4 or Band 6 piece of paper means sh it without been able to speak the language), spend time on all four aspects and those are the ones that surprise the hell out of me when I get to speak to them.

[Gregor]

THIS doesn't happen very often,
But I agree with Roger on this one.
1. Reading aloud probably does more harm than good, and
2. They are not going to do anything that you suggest, ESPECIALLY speaking English with other Chinese people.

HOWEVER. There are a few pieces of advice that I use, and I mention them here because I can also give you the reasons.

Speak English with Chinese people, even when not in class. They don't want to, because the Chinese language partner isn't speaking with a native accent and there's no one to correct mistakes. It's still a good idea though, because (and they don't think of this and I've never heard or read anyone else saying this) it is practice for them to THINK in English, which is the first step in fluency (that is, rather than formulate what they want to say in Chinese and then translate it).

Get a FuDuJi and use it. I've never seen or heard of anyone actually using these wonderful devices except me, but they have worked WONDERS for my Chinese pronunciation. I've only seen these things in China (they no doubt have them in Japan and Korea as well). A FuDuJi (I don't know the characters or the tones for that word) is that cassette player that also has a digital loop part below it. You play the cassette and using the digital part, you can select part of the cassette passage to copy. You can then record your own voice saying the same thing on a second loop and compare the two. It's tedious, and they won't do it, but if they did, it would help.

Learn to sing English songs. This has never helped me with a language. I can't understand what half of singers are singing about in my own language. And song lyrics are sung, not spoken. Maybe it's just the way my brain works, but I find that extremely distracting. But a lot of people with really good English insist that that was what helped them the most, so I pass it on.

Watch DVDs/VCDs Without subtitles! Or, for lower levels, with the English titles. Certainly not the Chinese ones. That's listening practice, but it WILL help their speaking abilities.

And that last one reminds me - those readers they have, with the Chinese on one side and the English on the other? Complete rubbish. I've tried to use those when working on my Spanish, and even when I WANT to do the Spanish, it's really hard to NOT read the English side. Much the same for Chinese people reading the Chinese side.