Job Discussion Forums

[leeroy]

(I am still not sure if it is referred to as the "phonetic" or "phonemic" script - so I will go for "phonemic" from this point forth. Please feel free to correct me if it is in fact the other)

Anyway, those funny scribbly things that are stuck up on classroom walls everywhere...

Before I really knew what it was, I was a fierce enemy of the phonemic script. "Why learn another alphabet" I argued, "when the students are battling with another language already?"

Suffice to say that in real terms this translated more as "I don't know what it is, therefore it is bad". *beep*, at least I'm honest,

Now (post DELTA), I can trasnscribe things phonetically like the best of them. It's not actually that hard - and best of all, the students respond to it. Not only does it make me look clever writing things like

/d3ju: si:/ (a contracted form of "Do you see?")

but it does actually help with my (Asian) students' pronunciation. Conveniently, despite all other linguistic, cultural and social impediments to language learning that plague East Asian learners of English, all of them seem comfortable with the phonemic script. (They learn it at school, so I am told...)

I am also well familiar with the horror that is "English spelling" vs. "English pronunication" - the existence of the phonemic alphabet is well justified. All of this said, I have met relatively few people who share my passion for it.

So my question is...

Are you fluent(ish) in the phonemic alphabet, and if so do you use it to any great effect in the class? What are your thoughts on the whole matter?[/u]

[basiltherat]

i've taught them and will use them because it helps students to be able to pronounce new words they find themselves in their dictionaries.
i often give them homework in which i write up 10 words on the board and get students to use their dictionaries to find out how each one is pronounced and then compare their pronunciations in groups of 3 before getting them to pronounce them for the class.
some of the ones i have used for this are;

hymn
psychiatrist
vague

etc

they seem to enjoy such exercises
rgrds
basil

[lajzar]

The formal name is IPA script, more commonly known as the phonetic alphabet. There is a difference between phonetic and phonemic. For example, the /t/ in standard US English dialects is a single phoneme, but phonetically has a couple of different realisations, depending on teh surrounding context.

My Japanese kids do NOT learn IPA. I'd love to teach it to them, but I have never had any students with enough classes to justify it. One hour a week is barely sufficient to maintain what you already know.

[FGT]

I'm a fan of the phonemic script. One big argument for it is that it encourages our learners to become independent - they can use a (good) dictionary and not only know the meaning of a word but also its pronunciation.
It's good, from basic levels, for highlighting differences eg regular plurals:
forks /s/, cars /z/, watches /iz/. Teach it in small doses from day 1. No problem.

[scot47]

Please, it is IPA, not "phonetic script" or "phonemic script".

[Capergirl]

@FGT...I was teaching the pronunciations of -s and -es endings just this morning. My Arabic student actually asked me why it was necessary for him to learn "this".

By the way, shouldn't that be a schwa with the z in your last example? Not that I'm picky or anything.

[Slim Pickens]

X

[Lanza-Armonia]

I too, am a fan. Although I do not know it inside-out, I can cross-reference most of the basics. Unfortunatly, I find the older children (14-18 ) heavily rely on it. I try to discourage it. Like, when learning Chinese, you see the pinyin once or twice, learn the pronouciation, learning the character and never see the pinyin again. But the kids like using it too much...i find

Also, not a single person in China holds a correct dictionary. Y'know, a paper one with correct usage tips, grammar and stuff in the front and back etc etc. They all have these e'books and I fecking hate them. They're written in Chinglish, they do not have all of the definitions in them and when the children depress the speaker button, it comes out with this unbelievable incorrect word, almost unintelligable.

Welcome to China LA...

[dmb]

i feel IPA is most useful at higher levels when trying to encourage learner autonomy. If they don't know how to pronounce it then they can always look it up in a good dictionary

[gugelhupf]

I have previously loathed and despised IPA on the grounds that it is just another bit of language mechanics to take up learning time. I have to say, though, that I have found it quite useful myself recently since I have been learning another language and I'm beginning to see its value.

I'm not sure at what stage in language learning IPA should be introduced, however, and maybe this also depends on the learner's 1st language - i.e. is it roman(ish) script read left to right? I'd like to hear the opinions of more experienced teachers about this.

I imagine rigorous use of IPA might be a weapon against "arabesque" English - one of my pet hates! - the variety of the language with extra syllables in virtually every word, as taught by Syrian and Egyptian ESL teachers in the Gulf.

[Stephen Jones]

I would say that the tape recorder made IPA almost obsolete as far as language learning goes.

It is useful for pointing out graphically how things are pronounced. I'm dubious it's worth the students effort to learn to use however.