Job Discussion Forums

[Muimanlee]

Hello, any teachers out there that have had recent first hand experience with this school?
Thanks

[Voldermort]

Aren't there enough threads on this forum to give you an idea of EF in China as a whole?

[Roger]

There is zero, I repeat: zero justification for such blanket statements as the one made so dismissively and without regard to facts as the one made above.
Only if every single branch of EF China gets legitimate bad reviews - from people whose judgement is above suspicion - should we ostracise a chain school! That definitely IS NOT the case with EF China!

What if someone were to lump all FTs together under the label of "hoboes and welfare squeezers"?

[gregoryfromcali]

I completely disagree with you Roger.

It's funny that you feel the need to defend EF from generalizations when you always make generalizations about 300 million people who live across the pond from your own country.

But that's neither here nor there.

The reality is that EF is a chain school whose home office is only concerned with making more and more profits.

How do they do that? By making them work as much as possible and more.

I do not like coming on these boards to criticize schools. (Like you, I'd much rather be doing tai chi chuan.) But word of mouth is the only protection that teachers have.

As a teacher I've had both good and bad experiences with EF, but in the end, as far as how they treat their teachers, they have been the most unprofessional organization I've worked with.

But yes I have no doubt that they are a few that are good. I think the main problem is that the owners have to pay so much for the EF name that it's no wonder that they demand so much from their teachers.

If their home office cared as much about their teachers as they do about their profits I have no doubt that EF would be a fine organization to work for.

Unfortunately I have yet to see that.

[clark.w.griswald]

I agree with Roger.

The OP did the right thing by coming here and posting a request about a specific school in the chain. He is only going to be working for one school in that chain no doubt, so what goes on in that school is most relevant to him.

As my previous posting on EF has shown, there are more positive comments about specific EF schools than negative ones. That's right. I realize that the wealth of posts about EF are negative but when you look at those posts more closely you realize that they are written by:

a. people with a grudge against one school in the chain who then extrapolate their experiences at one school across as somehow being representative of the whole chain;

b. people with a real agenda in trying to rubbish the EF name;

c. people with no real experience with EF who just join the general bashing of the company as it is a large company

In my experience with posts about EF those teachers with legitimate complaints about EF tend to limit their comments to the particular school that they had a bad experience with and they often accept that experiences may vary between schools.

It is not clear to me why some people seem to feel that just because there are some bad schools in the EF that they must all be bad!!

I am also unclear as to why some people seem to feel that the politics of the company and in particular the head office in Shanghai is such a concern for the average foreign teacher fulfilling their six or twelve month contract in a school!!

It seems to me that EF offer a curriculum, reasonable classrooms and facilities, training and support, and actually pay you for the work that you do. All things that would benefit a new teacher. Sure the hours are long and the pay is not great, but for a newbie to China EF or other chain schools can be a soft landing.

[Gregor]

All but Greg from Cali, yes. Thank you.
In a school like an EF franchise, the manager has a lot of autonomy. He or she doesn't have to do much of what the head office in Shanghai says.
Often, having a DOS who is willing to put up with the HUGE hassles involved with communication between a center manager (who often speaks little or no English) and the foreign staff makes all the difference. The school, whether or not it's part of a large chain, is good or bad depending on the people working there.
In my experience with EF, which is extensive, the fact that it's a chain doesn't touch on the lives of the FT even in the smallest way. The teachers are paid, reliably and on time. Their contracts are honored right up to boarding the plane home, and any "screwing" of the teachers comes from the teacher a) not honoring his or her side of the contract, thus the school does what it can to salvage the problem and even punish the teacher within the confines of the contract, or b) not understanding what's going on, and thus just assumes that he or she is being screwed (as opposed to making more of an attempt at clear communication.
Look at some other threads about common Chinese FT jobs. Middle schools where you are expected to act like a dancing bear, or where you have a TA there either to spy on you, to translate every bloody word you say, or both.
I think that my teachers at EF Dalian (and the same can be said of my teachers when I was at EF Shenyang) feel fortunate that they landed here instead of some other Dalian "teaching" position. Because HERE, they are actually teaching, and their lives outside the school are relatively stress-free.
If you don't like the hours or the salary, don't go to work there. But these are things that you know before you sign the contract. They cannot pile more hours on you and work you to the bone unless you agree to do it.
I'd really like to hear or read a legitimate gripe about EF that can be applied to the entire chain across the board. From where I'm sitting, that is just absurd. And as a DOS in one EF school, I find it offensive, because it implies that I'm not doing my job. I think my teachers would differ with that assessment.

[gregoryfromcali]

[Roger]

Gregory, you deserve some opprobrium, and I will give you some!

We know the names of a number of black spots across China - EF branches in certain towns such as Huizhou. You claim to know "50" FTs that have negative views on EF. Fine - my ownly question is: CREDIBILITY?

I too know people - not 50, admittedly, but some! - who have NO such negative viewsd on the EF system in China or on individual branches. Who is more credible then - I or you?

Unlike you, I am not willing to pour out the baby with the bathwater!

Let me ask you a pertinent question: does the fact that EF is a British-owned school have something to do with the grumpiness of many in this forum? Have we ever been treated to scathing remarks about EF by a Brit? Just an awkward impression that may be totally wrong (but since you think and publicly proclaim this to be a sort of "fact" - I am, according to your opinion, biased against a certain country across the big pond...).

I repeat: EF has not an uniformly bad reputation in China. THis bad reputation is being fabricated by interested parties. Maybe competitors are laying it on a bit too thickly! I guess there is a conspiracy going on!

And please, we have too many so-called 'FTs" that should first clean their own slate before they complain about the trewatment meted out to them here! Not everyone hired in this cpacity is one!

[clark.w.griswald]

[gregoryfromcali]

[gregoryfromcali]

[gregoryfromcali]

I've been thinking things over and I realize that for the sake of argument it would make more sense to go into the details of my situation and name the schools involved.

The reason I don't go into the details of my situation is because I feel that enough teachers here have already done so on other threads in regards to working for EF. But I will reveal one situation here.

As far as naming the schools publically I think it could hurt some of the friendships I have with teachers who still work at those schools as well as poor salt on old wounds.

Which I am not here to do and I will not do. (It is also the reason why I've kept quiet on the EF issue for so long.)

I realize that it makes my argument weaker, but I've said what I wanted to say in regards to how EF runs it's schools.

If I have to lose face to protect some people and friendships then that is fine with me.

You can still PM me.

I should also add that I do not know anything about EF Ningbo, but two EFs were more than enough for me.

After the first bad experience with EF I thought the way Roger and Clark do, that just because one EF is bad they can't all be bad. Unfortunately while the second one was better. My fiance and I still had some problems.

For example, one day my fiance was sick. We called the school and told them that we wanted to go to the hospital. The school agreed to take us there because of the obvious language barrier. Yet when we got to the school, to then go to the hospital, the Chinese staff was too busy to take us.

When my fiance reported this to the DOS, he tried to make her feel guilty for criticizing the Chinese staff "who work so hard."

As a result my fiance didn't go to the hospital and her temperature rised more and more because she did not have the proper medication. She was in bed for about four days.

Which, as you can imagine, was very hard for me to watch as she had already expressed fears about coming back to China with me again because she had gotten sick last summer when we were here and fainted.

But I trusted EF and I believed that this time they would be more professional. Unfortunately I was wrong.

Now I have a question for you. If you were in my shoes would you keep your mouth shut if someone came on this board to ask you your opinion about EF in China?

[vikdk]

What amazes me about these EF threads is that for a supposedly big chain not one current employee bothers to add their comments.

I don't think the OP wants to read more rehashed business ethics argument from two ex's, a person who has links with teacher recruiting and a South African who has never even taught in one of these schools.

The sum total of this long-winded argument so far - long hours relatively bad pay whatever outlet you work in - not good selling points for me anyway

[Gregor]

[vikdk]

great gregor - as insider you could ivite some of the ordinary front line teachers to add a bit of first hand experience to this thread - we would love to know how they enjoy the EF experience