Job Discussion Forums

[kev7161]

Okay, for my "momentous" 2000th post, I decided to ask our forum members to give their opinions on the following:

Some people think that the average of around 4000 a month pay is okay (for various reasons). Others think that FTs should be making 2X that amount or more. We all know there are high paying jobs out there if you are fortunate to find them and/or have the proper degree and credentials to be considered. So, here's my "unofficial" survey.
1. In your opinion only, how much is enough to live comfortably in China (and perhaps to save a little upon your eventual return to your home country)

2. How many periods/hours should you be working for the amount offered?

3. What kind of educational background should be enough for a certain paid position (TEFL certificate, Bachelor's [of Education?], Masters, etc.?

4. Besides teaching the pre-determined hours/periods, how many extra
hours should an FT be expected to put in for such things as English Corner, office hours, lesson prep, and so on?

Let's start at 4000rmb and then work our way up in increments of 1000 - - you can go as high as you want, based on how much time you have for this silliness and how much you want your opinion to be read.

Here's mine - -

4000: 1. Not really enough 2. 16 periods 3. TEFL and/or Bachelor's in any field 4. 5 extra hours per week

5000: 1. Better, but a little more for the "comfort zone" 2. 18 periods 3. same as 4000 4. 5-8 per week

6000-7000: 1. This is a "doable" salary for me as long as I don't go crazy too often (traveling, spending sprees, etc.) 2. 20 periods 3. Bachelor's in English or Education, perhaps some teaching experience 4. 8 - 10 per week

8000 and up 1. Living well in this bracket with ability to actually save/pay bills back home 2. 20 to 25 periods 3. A background in education/foreign language/classroom management. If at the college level, a Masters wouldn't be too much to expect. 4. Negotiable, but up to 15 isn't unheard of for this amount

Let's not forget that MOST schools will provide you with a place to live along with furnishings, utilities, internet, etc. Really, once a teacher can get into that 6000+ bracket, you're doing fairly well (remember, in MY opinion)

Now, after saying all this, salaries and such also will depend on just what your responsibilities will be. "Spoken English" classes surely don't need to have a trained educator there, but certain teaching skills would certainly come in handy - - but this is most definitely an area where you can and will "learn as you go". So many theories and ideas and experience I had coming to China were chucked out the window in the first month or two.

If you are teaching business, literature, grammar (mechanics), or some other sort of "advanced" English courses, the more experience and education you have, the more it will help, I feel.

So, what do you think?

[Don McChesney]

Depends on where you are!!!!
In a cheap city to live, you can live very well on 4000.
The accommodation is the main thing to worry about, if it is OK, the money becomes fairly secondary.
Zhengzhou is cheap and cheerful, despite what some posters think, so you don't need or expect 6000+.

[Spiderman Too]

Of course, it�s not just the salary that�s important; the additional benefits can make a big difference. And, the quality of life afforded by the location also needs to be considered.

As for salary, for me, 4,000 is not enough, even if assigned only 12 periods per week. I spend 2,500 per month (excluding occasional one-off capital purchases) and I want to be able to save more than 1,500 per month.

Last year I earned 5,000 for 16 periods and that was okay salary wise. I had a 12 month contract which provided 11 months salary; full salary for spring festival and 1/2 for July & August summer break. I had a very nice apartment that was equipped with, among other things, a computer & printer. I got free electricity / gas / water / internet. The internet connection was reasonably fast. No satellite or cable TV available; only CCTV9. The school purchased �proper� medical insurance for the foreign teachers. This proved to be especially beneficial for me as I had to undergo (relatively minor) surgery. I was given a private room in a first rate hospital and it didn�t cost me a cent. Cash traveling allowance of 2,200 for Spring Festival and airfare reimbursed as per actual ticket cost, which meant that I got much less than the other foreign teachers. For example, one teacher joined the school after flying in from the States and he was reimbursed around 9,000 (including return flight); I flew in from Bangkok and was reimbursed 4,000.

This year I earn 7,000 for 20 periods. 10 month contract, 10 months salary. Spring Festival break is 6 weeks. Nice apartment but no computer or printer. Pay for my own electricity / gas / water but internet connection is free. However, the school�s network is way too slow so I�m paying 130 per month for my own ADSL line. This school has also purchased �proper� medical insurance for foreign teachers but it pays only 80% of medical costs. Cash traveling allowance of 1,000 for both National Day and May Day holidays, nothing for Spring Festival. Cash payment in lieu of airfare of 8,000; 4,000 at the end of the first term + 4,000 at the end of the second term. I have cable TV at 30 RMB per month which gives me HBO, Star Movies, Cinemax, AXN, National Geographic and Discovery Channel. I don�t care what others think; having English language TV has improved my quality of life.

I have a garden-variety bachelor degree + a TESOL. I teach oral English. This year it�s general. Last year was general + business English. IF I had a BEd, or higher, I would try for some of the positions at �international schools�. One appropriately qualified friend earns 16,000 at an international school in Beijing and another earns 12,000 + lucrative benefits in Xi�an. Indeed, there is a principal�s position in Shenzhen currently being advertised; 3,000 USD per month! I�d probably also try for one of the NET positions in Hong Kong.

Oh, and I disagree with Don. You�re worth what you�re worth (in terms of qualifications, experience, ability). I wouldn�t sell myself short just because a school claims that it�s locale has a low cost of living.

[boxcarwilly]

My sense is that most teachers are not paid what they are worth but are willing to settle for what is being offered particularly when counteroffers are seldom entertained by employers.
I have a bachelors degree in business administration coupled with being a Chartered Certified Accountant from the ACCA. I also have a Trinity teaching cert.
I teach at a private college in southern China. I teach around 20 hours a week. My monthly gross is 20,000 RMB but I pay taxes and rent. After tax and rent, I net out around 16. I live in a smaller city so the money goes a lot further than say a place like Shenzhen. I receive 3 weeks of paid vacation a year in addition to the traditional Chinese Holidays. Also have company paid insurance.
I normally don't like to post here about money as some readers don't react very well to the information but I suppose they have reasons.
I grew up with the understanding from my parents that people value what they work and pay for and that often, the more that is paid the more it is appreciated. I like it when my employers appreciate me. One of the problems of this rung of the ladder is that going further up is especially difficult.

[bdawg]

I agree that location is the primary variable in determining salary. I've never worked the coastal areas, but using the price of beer as a indicator, I would say that Shanghai would require a minumum 10,000 (with apartment, utilities included). 15,000 would be better.

Top end here (without private gigs) appears to be between 8-10 (this includes rent/utilty allowance). This are at the privates schools, where teaching hours run up to 25/week.

The common salary is around 3000-4500 with apartment/utilities. Usually find this at the universities. 12-16 hours. You will go through that pretty quick. But keep in mind that if you work for a university, most likely you only have develop one teaching plan/week and then apply it to each of your classes. Personally, I think that is the key. For me it's not really about hours, but rather amount of work required. 12 periods of the same lesson plan is pretty damn good, and honestly, I don't think it's worth much more than 4000/month. A lot of uni teachers here I know only work 3-4 days a week. That's a lot of free time to be racking up the 100RMB/hour private gigs.

The private schools though, you've got alot of hours. Most of the lessons are pulled from a curriculum, but at my school we have to teach one unique lesson each day, which requires a unique lesson plan. So I think that for the work involved at a private in Nanjing, one deserves a higher salary. I'd say between 10-12.

Uni in Nanjing - 5000 is excellent with apartment/utilities. Considering the work involved.

Private in Nanjing - 10 to 12 given the substatial difference in hours and work. The housing allowance allows you to live anywhere you feel like...which I prefer myself.

For the above I stand by a BA with TESOL/CELTA etc. as a minimum. I know there are lots of arguments made about good teachers without and bad teachers with...but...for me...I put the time in to finish mine and I would expect that my fellow co-workers put their time in as well. Also, I believe you owe it to the students to have a formal education. I didn't pay to go to university in Canada to be taught by someone with a high school education...regardless of how much 'life' experience they may hold.

If you are packing MA's around, well, you probably dont' need to read this board to figure out (and get) what you want.

It really is a tough call. So many different people with different qualifications. Different locations and different situations. A governing body doesn't exist, and neither do standards. Basically, the onus is on you to get something that you feel is acceptable.

...but then I hear about the absolutely outragous salaries received by some of the foreign DJ's here for a few hours of work a WEEK (for playing the same tunes that Chinese DJ's play) and I want to puke...and then shoot myself for accepting such a shitty teaching package.

[Super Mario]

1. 4,000 should see you living very comfortably. Anything over that becomes savings, so if there's two of you working you can stash lots of cash. In fact, my family of 3 managed easily on that on the outskirts of Shanghai. If in the sticks, there are people doing it nicely on 2-3000, mainly because there isn't much to spend money on. There is in the seaboard cities.

2.A sliding scale. 4,000 for 15 hours to 8,000 plus for 25. Work more than that and you'll regret it.
I was contracted for up to 24 hours. I only taught that for one semester. The reality was more like 18/20. The pay didn't change [8000 base, plenty of optional extras on offer. I took one: a group of Ph.D types working for the SOE that owned the school. Late Sunday morning into swish restaurant conversational stuff. That bumped the pay up quite a bit]
Underlying this is free housing, utilities etc, the great perk of teaching in China.

3. If you've only got a TEFL, whatever you can find. With a B.Ed and PGCTESOL, I went for the top end of what was currently on offer.
However, for many employers a white face and a parchment will do: go for what you can.

4. Lesson prep; whatever it takes to do a good job. This may mean an hours prep for each hour of classtime for a newbie. It always pays to have more up your sleeve than you really anticipate needing, or alternative activities for when you can sense "this isn't working".
On the other hand, if you're teaching the same course to more than one class, or you've been doing it for some time, prep becomes easy.
English Cornered!! Avoid like the plague