Job Discussion Forums

Mark-O · Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 7:49 pm Post subject: HONESTY WANTED PLEASE...

Hello All,

To start with, "YES" I am a newbie poster. I have tried to read as much as possible before posting this so as to minimise my ignorance to previous topics. But afer all, I'm afraid I do need to ask somethig slightly more relevant to me. So here goes:

I am a UK native speaker of English with a science degree from a UK university and am currently working towards saving money for a move abroad to pursue Teaching English. I am not doing this for making a 'quick buck' - quite simply, it is a career path for me and something I want to do.

For various reasons, I realy want to start my career in Hong Kong. However, I have read here how difficult and competitive this can be now and I realise that my chances are somewhere between exceptonally slim and none. I do intend to get myTEFL/TESOL/CELTA certificate before I leave, though my teaching experience will be non-existent.

What I'd like to know is if there is anyone here who has achieved a teaching job in HK with a similar background to me, or possibly knows someone who has?

But my main question to you is what can I do now over the next 18 months or so to make myself more employable in HK? I Was thinking of taking an Open University Masters course in maybe Applied Linguistics or TEFL? Also, maybe some voluntary teaching work might help? But please bear in mind that I still need to work full-time to cover my back.

I'd appreciate any advise or comments - please, if this is truly unrealistic then I'd like to know your opinion.

Thanks in anticipation

Mark

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

Hi Mark,

My advice...

1. Get your CELTA
2. Get some experience (anywhere....a private language school in UK/Europe is good for that..maybe at the same school where you do your CELTA)
3. Do your MA/Dip after you have had at least 3 or 4 years experience.

Bertrand · Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 293

Mark-O · Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 6:45 am Post subject:

THANKYOU both for your replies so far - much appreciated and helpful. Though Bertrand, I think you are misinterpreting me. I mentioned I had a science degree not beause I am in anyway proud of it or boasting (in fact it's quite the opposite), I merely saw it necessary to state this fact in case I was to be penalised for it by an employer. You confirmed this - so I thankyou. But I didn't feel as though I needed to be penalised for that here too - please cut me some slack, I'm just trying to get some answers.

As I said, I am expected to work full-time here in the UK to save money to clear various debts and provide starting costs for the next 18 months. I'm afraid teaching expeience on the mainland then is out of the question - though I see where you are coming from and it would be a far better option if I didn't have to be so riddled with debt from a UK education. I do feel somewhat helpless and wondered what I could do home here to put me in a slightly more favourable position before embarking upon HK. Apart from pursuing my CELTA then it seems my hands are tied.

From this post and others I feel the consensus is "go away and get 4 years minimum of relevant teaching experience and some more qualifications to boot and then try your luck". Fair enough. I never expected this to be easy and as Bertrand mentions, this is reflected in the salaries paid.

Just out of interest, the prerequisites of a HK teaching job are of high standards - is this one of the places with the highest standards in the world?

growler · Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 17

Hi Mark

Since you're in the UK, why don't you try for the PGDE instead. It only takes 10 months and I believe you get a GBP6000 grant. Okay, you might get into further debt but not much more. Of course, with your degree and a TEFL cert, it is still possible to find a job in some dingy tutorial centre, language centres or an agency who may rip you off. Hey, if that is okay for you then do it.

But speaking from experience, going back to full-time study was worth the investment. I did my PGD, got a decent teaching job in Hong Kong and managed to pay all my debts back within a year.

Have a look at the criteria for the Hong Kong Net Scheme, it would more or less serve as a guideline to what you need.

Good luck.

Mark-O · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 7:00 am Post subject:

Hi Growler,

That certainly is food for thought and the positive kind of advice I was hoping to seek. I'm going to think about that and look into it further! I'm pleased to hear things worked out well for you in HK.

Cheers.

Mark

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

Mark....yes, I'd say Growlers advice is spot on....so long as you can stomach the idea of teaching at secondary or primary schools. But even if you don't, a PGCE is a very handy qualification to have, and amounts to almost free training with the UK grant. Plus, look carefully and some PGCE's include a TEFL training option. There used to be a PGCE which actually specialised in TEFL offered at about 5 UK universities. I was about to take it back in 1991 but Mrs Thatcher scrapped it. Cow. Anyway, if I could go back 20 years I would do my PGCE straight after graduation....and take it from there.

Mark-O · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 9:08 am Post subject:

More great advice! I'm thinking and looking as we speak. The PGCE looks like a serious option for me. The 6000 notes would help me too.

So with the PGCE, I get to choose between primary and secondary school teaching, right?

Also, what would I take my PGCE in if not in TEFL? Is English a good option? Then that would have to be for secondary school teaching? But if so, would I need a degree in Engish to qualify to do this? I'm looking at University prospectuses online but they are far from clear. More advice would be welcomed...

Thanks again to all posters.

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

Well...now you need specialist advice from a good university careers advisor or some such.. You have to decide if you want to teach youngsters, teenagers or adults (you can also do a post-secondary PGCE). Normally you focus on your major subject/s from your degree, but there is some latitude to switch. I dunno if you can take English if your first subject was sciences. Remember also that if you go down this route you wil have to do at least a year or two (i think) of post-qualification teaching in a UK school to 'validate' your PGCE. Yuk....but at least you get paid. Good luck.

Mark-O · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:55 am Post subject:

Oh, right - thanks for that. As I said, I've been looking and there does some to be some flexibility in what subject you can take the PGCE in - it seems to vary from university to university i.e. some prefer you take the PGCE in your degree subject and others don't seem to mind.

I have seen one particular course that accommodates those who wish to teach something called 'The Middle Years', spanning ages 7-14 years. This age range, or possibly even a little younger, would suit me for teaching.

I have to admit concern for your last comment, Marcoregano: 1 to 2 years to 'validate' your PGCE?! For one reason or another, I wouldn't want to work that long in a UK school, I'd hope to be in HK by then. What does this mean? I thought you were a certified teacher after completion of the PGCE(?) Is this what is referred to in the NET scheme requirements of at least 1-2 years of working experience?

I'll seek some advice but would appreciate some here from anyone with experience in this matter - thanks!

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

You will have to suss this one out. I have a feeling that since a lot of PGCE graduates buggered off abroad straight after doing it, that the govt has brought in some kind of legislation to oblige grads to do at least a year or two in the UK afterwards, otherwise you don't get the qual or have to repay the grant or something like that. I dunno for sure, but check it out. I'd be interested to know what the score is myself....please post back if you find out.

Mark-O · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:20 am Post subject:

Yeah, I seem to remember hearing something about the bursary being made refundable if the NQT was to go abroad to teach afterwards. I'll have to find out - I'll look it up and be back in touch on this post.

One thing is certain, I'm not hanging around in the UK any longer than I have to!!

once again · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 815

Bertrand, you wrote that most decent employers in HK do not recognise distance or part time degrees. Could you please give us some examples of who these employers are and why they do not recognise such qualifications.

growler · Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 17

Hi Mark

Again, I can only tell you from my own experience.

I didn't know about the bulsary when I did the PGCE (secondary) three years ago nor did I know what age group I wanted to teach. Just as well I didn't, otherwise I'd have to stay in the UK for another year if I took the bulsary. I came to Hong Kong and got a job with an ESF Secondary School. They weren't too specific about my lack of teaching experience. I only had a year of voluntary teaching experience to refugees. I'm not sure how strict the Net Scheme are on experience. Maybe someone else can fill you in on that one.

Actually, I'm working for a local kindergarten which I find I'm more suited to but at less than half the salary from ESF in return. It is also possible for me to teach in primary schools. So, I believe the PGCE secondary is probably more flexible for future prospects.

Have a look at www.canteach.gov.uk

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

Hi Growler,

I find your last post a bit confusing. Do you mean you took a UK PGCE WITHOUT getting a grant/bursary, thereby avoiding the post-qualification teaching requirement? And then you got a job at one of the ESF schools (a proper f/t post?) with only a year or so's experience? I agree that the secondary PGCE is the most flexible option in terms of future employment.