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thetrueNoir
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 5
Location: Tokyo
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 Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject: And so begins the journey |
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Greetings all. I've been reading the forum for a while but figured its about time I started interacting...mainly since I'll be working in this field in the not to distant future. First is a short introduction (please skip if you want) then my first, of possibly many, questions. Thanks all.
I'm working on my MA degree in a Japan related field (sadly it's not TOEFL, but I like what I'm studying) and after graduation I'll likely head to Japan to teach. I've got teaching experience (I taught in undergrad and worked at an ESL program at my current school), speak decent Japanese, and have a solid academic record. I've also studied abroad in Japan for over a year. Downside is I'm young, and otherwise untested in the workplace. Knowing where I work best I'd like to teach at high school level and work my way up to university (someday...). I'm not into teaching at an eikaiwa, and I think I can land a more self-directed (maybe better too?) job than JET or an ALT on my own. If I'm wrong on that feel free to correct me, I just don't know the field as much as you guys at this point.
Here's the question. I've been researching a few positions that fit my tastes but alot of them say "proper visa" required. Since I was planning on getting my work visa upon starting work, how does one best go about getting a visa during the application process? Aren't u supposed to get sponsered for a visa after you're hired? What happens if you aren't hired? I suppose a tourist visa works, but isn't that kind of risky? Can high schools here even sponser a working visa? Whoa....thats more than one question. Sorry in advance. Yoroshiku Onegai... |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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You've come to the right place and started asking the right questions. Let's hit some of your background first.
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| I'm working on my MA degree in a Japan related field |
That means you have a bachelor's degree, so you are qualified for a work visa and entry level work as a teacher here.
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| I've got teaching experience (I taught in undergrad and worked at an ESL program at my current school), |
Teaching as an undergrad usually means you were some sort of tutor or Sunday school teacher. What was your experience?
What does it mean to have "worked at an ESL program"? Were you a volunteer, a paid assistant, or a full-time paid instructor? In any case, it will look good on a resume.
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| speak decent Japanese, |
Not necessary to get hired, and not used in classrooms, but not a bad thing to know.
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| and have a solid academic record. |
Japanese employers don't care if you got all A's or what your GPA is. They don't even know what a GPA is. But, it's nice to know you were a good student. It might help you later if you need to learn on your own to improve yourself.
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| I've also studied abroad in Japan for over a year. |
Also a nice thing to put on a resume.
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| Downside is I'm young, and otherwise untested in the workplace. |
I would hazard a guess that 90% of starting teachers in Japan are in the same boat, so don't fret it.
And, now on to your goals...
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| Knowing where I work best I'd like to teach at high school level and work my way up to university (someday...). I'm not into teaching at an eikaiwa,and I think I can land a more self-directed (maybe better too?) job than JET or an ALT on my own. If I'm wrong on that feel free to correct me, |
You are wrong. As I wrote above, you are only minimally qualified to work here. The best you can hope for is eikaiwa work or the JET programme for starters. At an outside chance, you might get an ALT job with a dispatch company, but I wouldn't urge you to try with the recent trend in their activities.
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| Here's the question. I've been researching a few positions that fit my tastes but alot of them say "proper visa" required. Since I was planning on getting my work visa upon starting work, how does one best go about getting a visa during the application process? Aren't u supposed to get sponsered for a visa after you're hired? What happens if you aren't hired? |
For those employers who say "proper visa required", they are looking for people already in Japan, whether on work visas, spouse visas, dependent visas, working holiday visas, student visas, or cultural visas. Being here and already legal to work tells them something about your commitment and a little experience as a teacher. Not all employers are like that, and not all are willing to sponsor your visa.
If you go with other employers who are willing to sponsor you for a visa, the first step is to be eligible for a visa (you are), and the next step is to prove to an employer that you can do the job. After the interview, if you get hired, then together you start the visa application process. So, you can see that you won't get a visa before you are hired.
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| I suppose a tourist visa works, but isn't that kind of risky? |
There is no such thing as a tourist visa. Tourist status, ok, but visas give you permission to stay in a country beyond tourist status periods. Semantics, I know, but you should realize this wording. Anyway, you can't legally work on a tourist status. It is VERY risky (you risk deportation, fines, imprisonment without a lawyer, and being blacklisted for 5-10 years from returning to Japan). A few shady places advertise that they'll let you work as a tourist, but why risk this stuff? For those guys you also risk not being paid and being dumped on the streets at a moment's notice (often after you have overstayed your tourist status and then risk the wrath of immigration). Even a 1-day overstay has its consequences. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/05/10/MNGT16IQK81.DTL
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| Can high schools here even sponser a working visa? |
Private ones sometimes do, but not in my experience. Public schools don't, and you can't work for them full-time as a direct hire anyway in most cases. Instead, you go through the board of education or a dispatch agency or JET.
Happy hunting.[/quote] |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: And so begins the journey |
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| thetrueNoir wrote: |
| I'm working on my MA degree in a Japan related field (sadly it's not TOEFL, but I like what I'm studying) and after graduation I'll likely head to Japan to teach. I've got teaching experience (I taught in undergrad and worked at an ESL program at my current school), speak decent Japanese, and have a solid academic record. I've also studied abroad in Japan for over a year. Downside is I'm young, and otherwise untested in the workplace. Knowing where I work best I'd like to teach at high school level and work my way up to university (someday...). |
some employers will require that you have a valid visa (as they won't sponsor your visa but you can work part time at a uni, for example), in-Japan teaching experience. Have you taught any Asian or Japanese students? Do you know how students study or learn here? Teaching Assistant or volunteer-type experience doesnt count for a lot. Teaching in a high school or on the JET program will help you more.
Universities seek people with related Masters degrees, preferably in English Linguistics or TESOL. Other degrees are accepted but they look at other factors such as experience as well. You will need to develop some work experience and a track record working in Japan first. They dont really care what you are interested in or what you like doing. They want a degree related to what you can offer your students.
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| I'm not into teaching at an eikaiwa, and I think I can land a more self-directed (maybe better too?) job than JET or an ALT on my own. If I'm wrong on that feel free to correct me, I just don't know the field as much as you guys at this point. |
What do you mean self-directed? do you mean make and choose your own curriculum and what you teach? Where do you find a school that will let you do that? Most of the language schools you will apply to from overseas have a textbook and a 'system' you will work to. You will have no choice but to work at an eikaiwa or JET until you get experience. There is no other choice out there if you are new to working here. Schools here dont care what you are 'into'. they choose the BEST person for the job. How can you land a job if you don't know where to look and there are no other jobs except ALT, dispatch companies and JET? I've been here nearly 20 years and never heard of 'self-directed' teaching. By that I guess you mean you are self-autonomous without actually having taught English in a paid capacity before.
Not only that you dont say if you have actually had any proper ESL training or got any certification in TEFL. Did you just 'pick it up' on your own, or do you just wing it with foreign students? Why would schools here give you responsibility for a class or a school curriculum if you have no actual 'theory' or system that you yourself work to? Is it just you don't like to be told what to do and how to teach? Do you know how to plan a curriculum, a lesson, how to evaluate and assess students? The best teaching materials or methods?
| Quote: |
| Here's the question. I've been researching a few positions that fit my tastes but alot of them say "proper visa" required. Since I was planning on getting my work visa upon starting work, how does one best go about getting a visa during the application process? Aren't u supposed to get sponsered for a visa after you're hired? What happens if you aren't hired? I suppose a tourist visa works, but isn't that kind of risky? Can high schools here even sponser a working visa? Whoa....thats more than one question. Sorry in advance. Yoroshiku Onegai... |
To get a visa you need a visa sponsor. That is usually your employer. When you attend the interview and get an offer of employment, they will offer to process your visa through the consulate or embassy. The visa comes from immigration, not your employer and the employer only asks for what immigration needs to sponsor your visa. Once the visa comes you can fly to Japan and start working. If you want to find your own job in Japan you fly here on a tourist visa and few thousand dollars to tide you over for two months, look for work and then apply for a visa once you find an employer who will sponsor your visa.
it is 'risky' in the sense you have no job lined up when you come here, you may spend a month or two looking for work (and still not find any) but once you have a visa application stamp in your passport you can work here legally on a tourist visa while your work visa is being processed.
If you aren't hired anywhere you either have to go home after 90 days or go to Korea and get another 90-day tourist visa and start the job hunt all over again.
A word of advice: if you are simply too choosy and fussy about what you won't do, you will simply stretch out the job search process and make things harder for yourself. If you say you wont teach eikaiwa, you wont teach kids, you only want high school jobs you are going to be looking here a long time. High school jobs generally arent advertised, they come from word of mouth and connections, you have to know people and be in the right place at the right time. Do you have a valid visa, a stable address, a telephone so people can contact you. Can you travel across the country to attend an interview?
I teach at a university in Japan and getting jobs is not just about having an MA and a pretty smile. You need experience, japanese ability, a well-written CV and most important: connections. You have to know people and jobs come from networking, timing and LUCK. You are coming straight off the plane with no work experience in japan and a non-related degree. Japanese ability is desirable but not sought after as you are paid for your English skills.
Set your sights a little lower, be prepared to do jobs below your comfort level until you get experience and have lived here a while. You dont know where to look for high school and non-ALT jobs so you will have to start with eikaiwa and work your way up. There are 50 or 60 people, sometimes up to a 100 at once, who apply for university jobs in this country and you are just one more. What gets the job is not always you CV but it maybe becuase they know you, you have done work they are interested in or you are just in the right place at the right time. |
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thetrueNoir
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 5
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| You've come to the right place and started asking the right questions. Let's hit some of your background first. |
Glad to hear that. Lets get started.
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| Teaching as an undergrad usually means you were some sort of tutor or Sunday school teacher. What was your experience? |
I taught classes of undergrads in biology and chemistry (Yeah, far from ESL I know... But it got me in front of the classroom doing my own curriculum every week)
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| What does it mean to have "worked at an ESL program"? Were you a volunteer, a paid assistant, or a full-time paid instructor? In any case, it will look good on a resume. |
I was a paid assistant teacher. Our job was to take the students into smaller classes and solidify their grammar and conversation skills for what they learned that day. Our curriculum was provided to us by the head teachers. The students were mainly Japanese, sometimes Koreans, aged from middle school all the way up to grad students.
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| You are wrong. As I wrote above, you are only minimally qualified to work here. The best you can hope for is eikaiwa work or the JET program for starters. At an outside chance, you might get an ALT job with a dispatch company, but I wouldn't urge you to try with the recent trend in their activities. |
I agree on minimally qualified, but I consider eikaiwa and JET to be entry level position. I qualified for these back when I spoke no Japanese, hadn't taught at all, and only held a Bachelors. I meant, does the things I've earned from that point (my M.A. is in Japanese and Japanese to English translation methods) give me a little more freedom in job qualification, or at least shorten the time I would have to spend in JET or eikawa to be considered so here?
Yeah, I'm hesitant about ALT dispatch companies myself. JET was originally my plan, but what you'll be doing in the class is often up to luck and their hiring schedule isn't matching well with when I'd like to be in Japan or start working. Since quite a few jr/high school positions show up in the listings I check I was thinking I'd rather find a job on my own rather than wait around for JET to come around. Even if the work likely will be comparable to your average JET ALT, at least I could decide the hiring timeline myself. Problem is, am I competitive on my own for these jobs without JET backing me? I can get my TESL certification, but am still debating whether it's worth the time and effort to get it right now or wait till later. Can you earn it in a Japanese institution by chance? Eikaiwa will hire you just about any time of the year, but you already know my stance on them.
| Quote: |
| For those employers who say "proper visa required", they are looking for people already in Japan, whether on work visas, spouse visas, dependent visas, working holiday visas, student visas, or cultural visas. Being here and already legal to work tells them something about your commitment and a little experience as a teacher. Not all employers are like that, and not all are willing to sponsor your visa.If you go with other employers who are willing to sponsor you for a visa, the first step is to be eligible for a visa (you are), and the next step is to prove to an employer that you can do the job. After the interview, if you get hired, then together you start the visa application process. So, you can see that you won't get a visa before you are hired. |
That's what I figured it meant. So basically to be safe, when I first arrive in Japan I should work for a company that sponsors and I know will hire me? Then if I want to job hunt after a while in Japan I should be fine getting a work visa as long as I can find someone new to hire me?
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| Private ones sometimes do, but not in my experience. Public schools don't, and you can't work for them full-time as a direct hire anyway in most cases. Instead, you go through the board of education or a dispatch agency or JET. |
Problem is I only know of one BOE hire program (which has a really inconvenient hire system). I guess if i did go back and decide to sign on with JET I�d be looking to find a more permanent job as early as the contract permits, but I probably wouldn't mind staying a second if the placement was a nice one. Is it possible to do that directly without leaving Japan in between?
Whew, this is turning into a workout. Thank god I've still got plenty of time to think about my options here. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| thetrueNoir wrote: |
| I taught classes of undergrads in biology and chemistry (Yeah, far from ESL I know... But it got me in front of the classroom doing my own curriculum every week) |
at the end of the day, you are still a graduate student and not a trained teacher. Not an awful lot of that really matters and you have to draw a line between being a student and being a 'teacher'. Your main job at school was 'study'. Being a tutor is no more than a part time casual job.
People teaching English over here are not trained language teachers either and ESL companies like NOVA and GEOS do not require trained certified ESL teachers. You are hired for your foreign face, English speaking skills and nothing else. 90% of people here have no previous experience and it will make no appreciable difference if you have taught in a classroom or not. Teaching biology to native speakers is not the same as teaching English. Though it could be said you are teaching ESP or English for specific purposes. I assume all your foreign students had TOEFL scores and spoke English or they wouldnt be in a US university. How about teaching students who speak NO English?
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| I was a paid assistant teacher. Our job was to take the students into smaller classes and solidify their grammar and conversation skills for what they learned that day. Our curriculum was provided to us by the head teachers. The students were mainly Japanese, sometimes Koreans, aged from middle school all the way up to grad students. |
You were a tutor in other words, under the supervision of a professor or a qualified language teacher. What was the language level of your students, may i ask? Did you only teach in English or did you speak japanese to them? Yes you taught English, but did you actually learn 'how' to teach them? what methodology did you use? Did you design lessons and curriculum? Needs analysis? testing? materials development? That is what qualified and trained language teachers do.
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| I agree on minimally qualified, but I consider eikaiwa and JET to be entry level position. I qualified for these back when I spoke no Japanese, hadn't taught at all, and only held a Bachelors. I meant, does the things I've earned from that point (my M.A. is in Japanese and Japanese to English translation methods) give me a little more freedom in job qualification, or at least shorten the time I would have to spend in JET or eikawa to be considered so here? |
Bachelors degree is only for the visa, Most schools here dont care how many degrees you have, as long as you can do the job. having a Masters doesnt make you a better or 'more qualified' language teacher.
You can still have a masters and not qualify for entry level jobs here.
A Masters in Japanese doesnt qualify you to do anything here as you have no skills that a Japanese can use apart from teaching English. What do you mean 'freedom'? You can apply for anything you like and your only choices at entry level are eikaiwa, dispatch company or ALT. ALTS teach as assistants at public high schools under the japanese English teacher.
Glenski works full time at a private high school. You have a chance with a Masters but you need to be in Japan and know where to find out about jobs and how to apply for them. Its not a matter of shortening the time, its a question of what jobs are available to you when you come and apply. If jobs you want arent there you are out of luck. You are more qualified than someone with a BA but the school must like what you offer, first of all.
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| Yeah, I'm hesitant about ALT dispatch companies myself. JET was originally my plan, but what you'll be doing in the class is often up to luck and their hiring schedule isn't matching well with when I'd like to be in Japan or start working. Since quite a few jr/high school positions show up in the listings I check I was thinking I'd rather find a job on my own rather than wait around for JET to come around. |
As I mentioned you can not be hired directly by a public high school but by the Board of education as an ALT or as a private dispatch company employee sent to work in a school. You are not then a high school employee but of a dispatch company.
Private high school jobs are much harder to find, as im sure Glenski will tell you.
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| Even if the work likely will be comparable to your average JET ALT, at least I could decide the hiring timeline myself. Problem is, am I competitive on my own for these jobs without JET backing me? I can get my TESL certification, but am still debating whether it's worth the time and effort to get it right now or wait till later. Can you earn it in a Japanese institution by chance? Eikaiwa will hire you just about any time of the year, but you already know my stance on them. |
I can only give you my experience, but i have lived in japan probably longer than you have been around, have a graduate degree and experience. Even then I am still up for jobs against 20-30 other people.
So being competitive is relative, Yes you can apply, but you have 40 other equally qualified people applying for you. What I think you are asking here is what are my chances of getting hired with what i have? the answer is 'a good a chance as any for a person with your qualifications. Neither Glenski or I know the answer. You have to throw your hat in the ring and APPLY, and keep applying till you get listened to. No one here will guarantee your chances of getting hired.
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| That's what I figured it meant. So basically to be safe, when I first arrive in Japan I should work for a company that sponsors and I know will hire me? Then if I want to job hunt after a while in Japan I should be fine getting a work visa as long as I can find someone new to hire me? |
Put it another way. With no sponsor and no job you cant work or earn an income, so having a sponsor, a job and a work visa is a given. You have to come here, look for work and get a visa, rather than cherry pick which job you want to do. You are putting the cart before the horse by saying that you are too good for eikaiwa and JET when you dont even know if you can find a job here. Your meaning in the above paragraph is a little fuzzy.
If they offer you a job you know they will hire you. You know you will get a work visa.Of course you want to work for someone who offers you a visa or else you don't get paid. You can turn them down, it just means you go hungry a bit longer.
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Problem is I only know of one BOE hire program (which has a really inconvenient hire system). I guess if i did go back and decide to sign on with JET I�d be looking to find a more permanent job as early as the contract permits, but I probably wouldn't mind staying a second if the placement was a nice one. Is it possible to do that directly without leaving Japan in between?
Whew, this is turning into a workout. Thank god I've still got plenty of time to think about my options here. |
The JET contract is one year, renewable up to three years. You can stay up to three years on JET. Your 'permanent' job is only as long as your latest contract which is usually one year each year. I am full time where I am, but my contract is still one year and renewed every year.
Last edited by PAULH on Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thetrueNoir
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 5
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:53 am Post subject: |
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Landing a university position here is difficult and takes years of work and a often luck to get there. The teachers at that level work darn hard to get where they are, thanks for clarifying that PAULH.
The handful of university English teachers I do know here I certainly admire, but in my case I'm many many years away from their level. If otherwise was implied in my post I sure didn't mean it. Thing is, I also know alot of JET ALT's who like teaching as careers and didn't like at all what they were doing as JET's. I told them they'd probably have to deal with it and take the experience until something better opened up. I landed a JET position myself back then, but turned it down since I was offered a good grad school spot. I may probably end up taking my own advice and taking JET in stride, but I want to better understand the jobs sitting above that level that would offer something marginally better (private school like Glenski for example).
Hell, reading these boards more and more I don't see a hugh problem working JET for a year or two before moving on to something like a private High school teaching job (if thats how it works most often). I'd consider myself then well on my way on the long path to getting a university position. But my philosophy is to reach for the highest level you can at the time, and that takes job research and asking stupid sounding questions like mine I suppose.
Oh, and by the way:
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| Glenski works full time at a private high school. You have a chance with a Masters but you need to be in Japan and know where to find out about jobs and how to apply for them. |
My main question almost exactly. Can anyone help out with experience doing this? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:40 am Post subject: |
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True Noir,
Im currently full time at a university in Japan and teach four days a week at two university. Im probably where you want to be five years from now. I dont want to sh-it on your parade and give you advice as its asked for. im now re-examining my options after a 15 year university teaching career as i see the writing on the wall with university jobs here. i wont advise you not to go into it but you are free to make up your own mind. University teaching is now like re-arranging deckchairs on the Titanic and Im one of the crewmembers heading for the life boats.
As far as job ads go, and i know a few foreigners in kyoto teaching at high schools. There are basically three types.
1. Part timers. (hijokin) They come in and teach one or two days a week and go home again. no real responsibility except teach their classes
2. Full time (jokin) . Again they have set full time jobs, their own desk in the staff room are treated the same as full time Japanese faculty. Downside is you have a 3-5 year contract and once thats up you clear out your desk and go job hunting. im on my second contract and have had to look for aother full time job three times already
3. Sennin. (tenure) hardest to get and the plum positions. basically there till you retire or die.
with part timers they may be at several schools and know dozens of people. when a job opens up or they leave they will first tell people they work with or teh school may ask them to refer someone. I have found jobs for people this way. mailing lists in Japan with 150 people on them are a good way to let people know and people have got jobs i have told them about. the second one is personal recommendations. My current job came from a personal referral. Contacts are KING here. You cant do it from the US.
Full timers the school has to advertise publically but to avoid getting 100 resumes they will ask current teachers. i know lots of foreigners so i can usually introduce quality candidates to them. i put word outrecently about a job and they got 10 high class resumes within 3 days without even breaking a sweat.
OK so you dont know anyone. you then hit the classifieds. language teacher (JALT) the online job sites. 90% of job ads are in japanese. You dont read japanese? Tough. maybe 1 or 2 jobs in English with 100 people going for them.
last way is to promote yourself. get in somewhere part time, one or two days a week and wait for an opening. build up your resume by publishing, work on Japanese and get a related masters degree. job opens up and you walk through the door. School doesnt even have to look for a teacher as its right under their nose.
Where to look for jobs?
Best places on line
http://jrecin.jst.go.jp
http://www.jacet.org
Language teacher magazine http://www.jalt.org |
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thetrueNoir
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 5
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:23 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info/warning Paul.
I'm having a hard time distinguishing where your post changes from jr/high school teaching to university. Alot of it seems to deal with university jobs, like your own job or those web sites. I agree you're probably where I want to be around 5 years from now (but then again how does that 15 year career statement work? How can I be at the same place u are now in 5 if you've been there for 15?) Anyways, contacts contacts contacts, thats how it works here. On to dealing with the next stage at hand though, for now Im just curious how to land a job a little like Glenski's. JET to get experience (and a visa) and then break my way in after a year or two? I wonder...
Yeah, I hate the contract system too. The thought of job hunting again and again every 1-5 years really irks me, especially since university sennin is so hard to get. I wonder if sennin positions exist at high school levels...that isn't souding so bad lately. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| thetrueNoir wrote: |
Thanks for the info/warning Paul.
I'm having a hard time distinguishing where your post changes from jr/high school teaching to university. Alot of it seems to deal with university jobs, like your own job or those web sites. I agree you're probably where I want to be around 5 years from now (but then again how does that 15 year career statement work? How can I be at the same place u are now in 5 if you've been there for 15?) Anyways, contacts contacts contacts, thats how it works here. On to dealing with the next stage at hand though, for now Im just curious how to land a job a little like Glenski's. JET to get experience (and a visa) and then break my way in after a year or two? I wonder...
Yeah, I hate the contract system too. The thought of job hunting again and again every 1-5 years really irks me, especially since university sennin is so hard to get. I wonder if sennin positions exist at high school levels...that isn't souding so bad lately. |
I have only worked at universities since 1990 and thats all i know. The job search and criteria is similar for high school jobs that are not ALT or eikaiwa.
think of private high school and university jobs as being roughly similar. Im my classes I'm the boss, i have no JTE standing over me, i choose my own textbooks, teaching methods and grade my own classes. Im hired directly by my university and not an outside agency or a conversation school.I actually need teaching qualifications to get hired (Japanese ability was a condition of employment for me as well)
My full time jobs are on contract but the first ten years I was on one year contracts. Every year the schools just ask me if im coming back next year and I put in an order for textbooks. renewal is automatic for part time unless you do something studpid, you leave or you die (does happen on a regular basis in Japan, IVe known several foreigners to die here). Full time I have a use-by date on my contract.
My first job it was mandated bylaw as it was a national university and my salary was paid by the government. Im now at a private university and 95% of private universities have term limits for foreign teachers. i believe many high schools do too. FWIW the part time uni I work for has a high school in Hokkaido where Glenski works full time. Some schools go from elementary school all the way to university.
Assuming you get a Masters degree, a couple of years in JET or NOVA you could be part time or full time at a high school by 2010 or earlier. it depends on you, and jobs being available.
How to get a job like Glenski's? Luck, timing, connections, persistence. Market yourself and continually build up your resume. network at JALT and get to know people. Come on JET, NOVA whatever you have to do to get over here.
Working on JET you wont meet private high school teachers unless you go out and find them, as JETs tend to stick together, as do eikaiwa teachers. You have to go outside your comfort zone by joining teaching societies. getting jobs here is like prospecting, and you simply have to keep digging. No one is going to ring you up and hand you a job on a silver plate, no matter how hard you try. Jobs go to those people trust, people they know will not disappoint the guy who introduces them (face is involved too, to a big extent). I dont wnat to have you quit after 6 months or you become 'high maintenance' to the school and they look at me and think "where did you find this guy?" I will refer people I know can deliver, and though you may be a nice guy, I know next to nothing about you and your capabilities. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| I agree on minimally qualified, but I consider eikaiwa and JET to be entry level position. I qualified for these back when I spoke no Japanese, hadn't taught at all, and only held a Bachelors. I meant, does the things I've earned from that point (my M.A. is in Japanese and Japanese to English translation methods) give me a little more freedom in job qualification, or at least shorten the time I would have to spend in JET or eikawa to be considered so here? |
Paul has worked for universities in Japan for many years. So have others on this forum. I am looking to break into that area. However, I know a lot about university jobs. With an MA like yours, you are unlikely to get a full-time teaching position at a university. That means part-time work at best, and PT work does not sponsor work visas. You might improve your chances at FT work by publishing a lot (ask taikibansei about that), but you would still have to hope like hell someone accepts a non-education-related MA like yours.
Sadly, with no experience teaching here, even on JET, you only qualify for entry level work, in my opinion.
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| am I competitive on my own for these jobs without JET backing me? |
For ALT and other entry level jobs? Yes. HOW competitive depends on many factors:
*where you apply (city as well as company or school)
*when you apply (there are hiring peaks in Japan, and long dead stretches)
*what your resume and cover letter look like (I've proofread dozens, from lawyers to doctors to people who have worked retail, to people who have ESL experience, and most of them were in dire need of rework)
*whether you come here to look or do your looking from home
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| I can get my TESL certification, but am still debating whether it's worth the time and effort to get it right now or wait till later. |
A person with a TESL certification and a master's degree might seem intimidating to an eikaiwa, and even more so with a good command of Japanese language. Eikaiwas usually have their own teaching format and want fresh-faced greenhorns they can mold in their own image, and who will not rock the boat with TESL techniques they have learned. So, be careful about that. I'd say look at it anothe way. You have had some experience assisting with ESL classes. As Paul wrote, how confident are you in planning a whole course by yourself with no textbooks and only a week or two to do it? You might run into that situation, worst case. More common cases are having no textbooks (or very crappy ones), and you still have to fill 60-90 minutes of class time once or twice a week for each class (maybe 5 or 6 different ones, at different levels of fluency). Be prepared to create, present properly (with minimal speaking on your part), troubleshoot the lesson (if it falls flat or if only one student shows up), and know how to field questions that you can't answer immediately.
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| So basically to be safe, when I first arrive in Japan I should work for a company that sponsors and I know will hire me? Then if I want to job hunt after a while in Japan I should be fine getting a work visa as long as I can find someone new to hire me? |
Look, I'm not sure if you get it. You either get hired from home by an employer who will offer visa sponsorship, or you come here with US$4000-5000 in hand, spend 30-60 days looking for work as a tourist, change your tourist status to a work visa, work on a temporary visa stamp in your passport, and wait another 4-6 weeks to get your first paycheck and the visa.
If you want to ditch your employer at any point after you get your work visa, that's up to you. The visa stays with you until it expires or you renew it. I am constantly urging people NOT to ditch contracts before they are complete (unless there are serious problems with the job, of course), because it looks bad for the rest of us, and it perpetuates the stereotype that many foreigners can't understand Japanese work ethics and are bums. Moreover, if you leave a contract early, how does this look to the next prospective employer? Some won't hire you if they see you have worked for a certain one for less than a year.
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| I guess if i did go back and decide to sign on with JET I�d be looking to find a more permanent job as early as the contract permits |
As it stands now, you can't get a JET ALT position until August, 2007. It will end July, 2008. Ditch that contract at anytime if you like, but that's the timeline you face now. Since JET is run by the government, the visa they sponsor you for is not a standard work visa that you can transfer to another employer like an eikaiwa, so you'll have to make your contacts whie you work for JET and go through the same hiring and visa process all over again as described above.
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Is it possible to do that directly without leaving Japan in between?
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Yes.
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I may probably end up taking my own advice and taking JET in stride, but I want to better understand the jobs sitting above that level that would offer something marginally better (private school like Glenski for example).
Oh, and by the way:
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Glenski works full time at a private high school. You have a chance with a Masters but you need to be in Japan and know where to find out about jobs and how to apply for them.
My main question almost exactly. Can anyone help out with experience doing this? |
Here's my experience of 8 years for you.
Get an eikaiwa or JET ALT job, spend a minimum of a year at it, then look for high school jobs. I worked at an eikaiwa for more than 3 years, then I took a job teaching at a private HS. The other FT people there included:
1. a woman who spent 3 years on JET
2. a man who worked eikaiwa and managed one, total time about 10 years
3. a man who had worked at NOVA plus done translation work plus done some post-master's degree studying at a Japanese university
...while the PT people there included:
1. a guy who had worked eikaiwa for 5 years
2. a guy who had worked eikaiwa for 9 years
These two guys prefered the PT work because they could make more money.
The woman above and guy #3 are the only ones who are not in Japan on spouse visas. #1 and #2 have tenure, a rare thing at our school, and they are probably the first and last ones to get it. Full-time positions are ending as of March this year, and the school doesn't plan to hire any more PT teachers to take up the slack.
To get work at private HS, you need to know people or read Japanese ads, I feel. When I was hired there 4 years ago, I got incredibly lucky in seeing an ad for the school in The Japan Times!! VERY lucky. Since then, I have seen fewer than 5 FT jobs like that advertised in TJT. That's one per year.
Want to know what it's like working in a private HS? I have a private survey I took from about 20 people. Hard to post the data here, but I'd be willing to somehow send it to you (names removed, of course). Let's just say, some of the people end up working 6 12-hour days, including half a dozen all-Japanese-language meetings per week, plus mandatory club activities whether you are good at the sport or not (and sometimes making you work 7 days a week). Native teachers often complain in public schools about the crappy government-selected textbooks, but in private schools you choose your own. Problem is, you don't know what you're teaching until about 2 weeks before you set foot in the classroom, so there is no time to get books, so you wing it. (Remember what I wrote above regarding this sort of thing for eikaiwas? Try doing that for classes of 45 unmotivated teens instead of a handful of semi-motivated adults.) |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| I wonder if sennin positions exist at high school levels...that isn't souding so bad lately. |
Looks like we're all posting about the same time, so I missed this item.
Sennin positions are rare, in my experience. Schools can hire 2 full-time non-tenured teachers for the price of one sennin. And, high schools are becoming just as stingy as universities these days.
The 2 sennins where I work are swamped. Because of the school losing 2 of us jokins in spring, one sennin has already been told she will have 20 lessons per week to teach, compared to a normal load of 15-17.
They have mandatory sports club activities 2-4 hours every day (one does this on Sundays, too, unless he just tells the coach to stuff it so he can be with his family). They are required to do more than just teaching like the rest of us full-timers -- they participate in extra meetings, they help to write entrance exams (and proctor them, of course), they visit other schools to recruit students, they do piddly stuff that comes up (like writing disclaimers for people who want to join our football team scrimmages just for the helluvit even though they aren't part of our school), they go on overseas trips with students as part of exchange programs which they have to spend countless hours planning by themselves, they participate as assistant homeroom teachers, etc.
It's a massive job, and even so, the Japanese teachers do more! It is not uncommon for a senning to work from 7:30am to 9:30pm or later 5 or 6 days a week at my school. I put up with about 70% of that sort of work load in the last 4 years, and I am ready for a change, either in a different high school or a university or by putting together a string of PT jobs. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: |
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While we are on the topic I will just fill you in with my work day. I am full time, like a jokin (they call them tokunin sensei at my school but its same thing. term limited full timer, 3-year term, non-renewal)
I teach 10 classes a week at my full time job. 2-3 classes one day a week outside. Each class has about 35 students, so you are looking at 500-550 students you see every week. 30 weeks of the year.
I teach 2-3 classes a day, 4 classes is my busiest day. I will teach my own classes as well as quizzes. that means as well as teach i actually have to make up the test papers print them out, hand out and collect from students, mark and grade. Do two review tests a term and thats over 1000 papers to mark so most teachers do 'pop' quizzes or make them multi-choice. usually I get students to mark it in class to save time.
I have an office where i spend non-teaching hours, I do make up tests, i have to write up entrance tests (yes I actually make proficiency tests to stream incoming students, entrance exam is separate, these tests are taken by over 700 freshmen) and grading. I also sit in on meetings once a month,conducted all in Japanese. some meetings are three or four hours long. I am also supposed to publish articles in the journal and do research as well.
First year at a new college you are like a student, finding out where everything is, where the photocopy room, cafeteria and student office are. Takes you the whole of the first term to get oriented. 2nd term and all of second year you just coast. 3rd year 1st semester. Clock is ticking and you are thinking about jobs. after summer vacation you are in search mode and teaching goes to hell and a hand basket. My last year I sent out 50 CVs, registered mail at $10 each. 50 rejections. Shortlisted on 2 or 3 of them but still no job.
Last edited by PAULH on Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thetrueNoir
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 5
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Hmmmm...Thanks both of you Glenski & Paul.
Seems like I need to get my networking into high gear. (Incidently as a part of my MA I'm spending the academic year studying at university in Japan)
From what you say coming here on JET and using that as a spring to land a private high school position directly is sounding more and more like the most sane option. Makes the most sense for gaining experience and avoiding visa hassle it seems. I guess I've just been letting way too many of those "being an ALT was a waste of time" comments get to me. It's actually quite well paid considering, and as long as I get classroom experience I don't mind being a tape-recorder if it turns out that way. 1 or 2 years of that would probably be the most I could handle however...
To note, I never considered breaking a contract of any sort. I think that's a low and dumb way to do things here. If I did JET I'd be in it for the long haul. I would go into it though with the intention of looking for that better job while still an ALT, hopefully landing it at the end of contract. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: chances |
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| You can get other work, but if you come in on a JET program, depends on the area, which will make or break you for contacts. The contacts are key; I've been teaching part-time at unis for five years, it is very difficult to even get the limited term contracts for full time. More and more people are coming that are better qualified, but espcially in Japan, contacts are king. I have seen some very underqualified people doing all sorts of things here simply because they licked someone's ass. But overall, you need expereince and qualifications to get the better jobs here, and you might never hear about them unless you have the right contacts. |
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