Job Discussion Forums

[Everest]

Hi.

I'd like some advice from Japan veterans and here is my question.

I currently live in China with my Chinese wife and our baby daughter, but this is my last year. I don't want our kid educated here, for reasons I'm sure most of you will understand. I'm thinking about Hong Kong or maybe Singapore, both places I think my wife would be comfortable with.

I've also toyed with Japan, having spent a bit of time there a few years ago. How do you think my wife would be received there, being Chinese? She speaks only Chinese (no Japanese) and of course fluent English, so it would be a bit of a struggle for her, culturally (and linguistically), but I'm sure she could pick up Japanese in time.

I quite like the idea of our daughter being fluent in Japanese.

Do you think my wife could be happy in Japan? What is the Japanese 'attitude' to the Chinese, in general. Would they regard it as strange that she had a white husband?... etc.

Any insight would be very welcome.

Thanks.

E.

[PAULH]

I think the biggest problem will be people thinking she is japanese and not being able to speak the language. A kind of odd Japanese person.

There is political tension between China and Japan but on a personal level I think she will be OK. Biggest problem will be making friends if she is at home all day with a child. Dealing with nursery school teachers may be a problem if she doesnt speak Japanese.

Not knowing anyone here except you, and being away from friends and family. There is a large Chinese community in Kobe as well as in Yokohama so she can meet other Chinese people.

You will be treated as two foreigners, two 'gaijin'. I know one American fluent in Mandarin and has a Chinese wife. She has a a PhD and teaches at a university here. Both of you are foreigners here so no problem. As I say, people will think she is Japanese though and international marriages are quite common these days.

[abufletcher]

When she is with YOU people will almost certainly think she is Japanese as it seems that almost every young Anglo guy in Japan has a Japanese wife or girlfriend.

The problems (if there are problems) would start when she ventures out on her own. Chinese (and other non-Japanese Asians in general) are way down on the gaijin ladder and this might lead to a cold-shoulder attitude at times.

I think the biggest problem is that your wife may feel considerably more isolated in Japan than you will. For you there will always be a large and accessable expat community from your home country. Your wife on the other hand may serious miss the opportunity to speak Chinese. My wife is from Mexico and let me tell you there are not a lot of Mexicans around Shikoku -- in fact there were exactly 4 including my wife last time we checked. And even though I speak Spanish, it just wasn't the same as getting to speak with a native speaker.

But in the end the largest variable in the equation is going to be YOUR job. How much money you'll be earning, the hours you'll be working and where you will live with probably overshadown all other aspects of your Japan experience for you and your wife.

[Gordon]

I think your wife will be fine. There are a lot of Chinese people in China and I bet the Chinese here are treated far better than the Japanese in China. Many of the Chinese that are in Japan are young factory workers, which of course has little status.

Your wife's biggest problem will be the language barrier (but we all face this). However, many (like has been said before) will mistake her for being Japanese. Your wife will be able to read much of the kanji so her learning curve for the language will be far better than yours (and mine). We came to Japan when my daughter was 8 months old (wife is also Cdn) and certainly having a child helps to break the ice and afforded us far better treatment than single people did.

[Nismo]

[PAULH]

[abufletcher]

I think Nismo's point was that the term "gaijin" is usually reserved for "westerner" foreigners. Africans, for example, don't get called "gaijin" but rather "kokujin" ("black people") and "easterner" foreigners are either "azhia-jin" or a nationality term (if a nationality is discernable).

I'm not sure chukokujin would be treated any differently than vietnamjin or kankokujin but I'm pretty sure Japanese attitudes towards all of the asia-jin differ (probably in a negative way) from treatment of "elite" (and generally "white") western gaijin.

So in this sense the OP and his wife would not just be "two gaijin" -- they would be "a gaijin and his chukokujin wife."

BTW, I'd like to hear more from the OP about why they don't want their child going to a Chinese school. A couple of years ago I taught a course in the US entitled Education Across Cultures and we looked at comparative ethnographic studies of pre-schools in Japan, China, and the US. Both Japanese and Chinese pre-schools were very much "group oriented" but the Japanese and Chinese sense of "group" were rather different and led to different sorts of practices at school.

[Nismo]

[Everest]

Abufletcher - Hi and thanks for your posting.

I'm not keen on the idea of our child being educated here. Schools in China across the spectrum suffer low standards generally (particularly the private ones) and there are good reasons for this. Teachers tend to be graduates of inferior universities and colleges (their qualifications in general, for example, would probably not be recognized abroad). Most have not travelled outside of China, making their world-view somewhat limited or confined to what state TV allows them to see. Finally, schools here continue to be used as propaganda vehicles for the party (albeit very subtly), and I don't relish the thought of our only child proudly completing her 'five red things', an amendment recently introduced to schools in some northern provinces where scholars must complete five 'party-loving' activities before they may consider themselves 'properly Chinese'. These included writing an essay about Mao, memorizing and singing a rousing communist ballad, and three other tasks that I cannot (and care not) remember. Finally, there is the question of the sorts of qualifications she would get at the end of it all. Chinese 'high-school diplomas' are barely acknowledged in Hong Kong, much less the UK or USA. Almost all qualifications from this country are regarded with suspicion and mistrust by more developed places. (I know this, certainly. I have friends in the a similar boat who now regret having their son schooled here for three years. In their words, "it was three years wasted"). Like our child, theirs is a foreign national in China and they have encountered EXTREME difficulty getting him into a PRIVATE school in the UK.

For all of its faults, you can't much argue with the Japanese educational system, which has to rank as one of the best in Asia - or anywhere.

Sorry if I sound so negative about China. I truly don't mean to, but I'm not playing Chinese roulette with our kid's future. It should also be noted that Chinese parents with money will do anything to have their kids educated abroad. There are long lines of parents at the Lo Wu/Hong Hong
border crossing each morning saying goodbye to their kids who clear passport control to go to school on the other side (HK, of course). No 'kidding'.

E.

[abufletcher]

[Sody]

[abufletcher]

[Everest]

Thanks guys. I'm off to pub to think about this one.