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Esther
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:17 am Post subject: What are your thoughts on... |
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Hi,
Just wondering if anyone has had experience with The Buckland Group, or the Blue Tassel School in Suzhou.
Any comments on Suzhou in general would be appreciated as well, though it sounds like a nice place for a first timer from what has been said on other posts.
Also how are the vegetarians out there finding China?
Thanks for your time,
Esther |
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Super Mario
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 1022
Location: Australia, previously China
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Also how are the vegetarians out there finding China? |
Esther, I think they've all died of starvation.
A link to Westerners in Suzhou is coming to your PM box.
Suzhou is a nice place: it would be high on my list of choices if/when returning to China.
I believe The Buckland Empire has now split into various components owned by different family members. Some people speak of the group they dealt with glowingly, others with anger. A bit like the curate's egg it seems. Are they recruiters, a school, a group of schools? Difficult to tell, but clearly a case of caveat emptor
Last edited by Super Mario on Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Spiderman Too
Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 732
Location: Caught in my own web
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Voldermort
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 597
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:17 am Post subject: |
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I have never had any direct dealings with Buckland myself, but I do know an FT who has recently finished a contract through them. She was not happy at all. Mainly due to the after placement support. She had a lot of problems with her school, which she felt was the opposit of what Buckland had promised.
Also one thing which made her quite enraged was when Buckland decided to use her photos and resume for advertising purposes without her consent.
Before entering into an agreement with this group I would recomend doing some research and possibly speaking directly to some of their current teachers. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Spiderman Too wrote: |
Bucklands? Our esteemed forum member, Roger, will defend them to the hilt but he is rather tight-lipped about whether he is involved in a business venture with Owen Buckland.
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Spidy, don't climb up the tree too high...you might not find your way back to the ground! Didn't you proclaim here recently (a few months ago) that you have turned your back to teaching English in China?
Now, "esteemed" ROger will defend Buckland as follows:
Of all the numerous agents in the PR of C, this is one of a very small handful that I would recommend!
If you publish your CV on this website, you will soon be haunted by agents a.k.a. recruiters; 99% of them are dubious if not downright crooked! 99% too high? OK, make that 98.5%! You will rarely be contacted by a regular school or training centre, and most TCs act as agents that loan their own staff to others!
I have heard a few complaints about BUckland from disgruntled forumates too - but in the end the question is: who do you trust? Do you automatically trust someone who says they are a FT? I have learnt in many years of working here that I can't trust posters any better than I can trust a self-aggrandizing employer!
Anyway, Buckland has seen thousands of FTs, so I would expect a number of problematic cases to have accumulated in which BUckland wasn't entirely without blame. There would still be a huge number of satisfied FTs!
I can certainly testify to their existence since I have been to the Buckland premises a number of times (not seeking a job), and I heard not a single criticism from anyone in transit there ("in transit" meaning FTs en route from one assignment to another, or freshly arrived, waiting to be sent somewhere).
Buckland houses recruits in generously-appointed rooms in a brand-new block; the premises is outside Yanbgshuo and not in the heart of the small town; you may consider this a drawback. But you can walk to West Street in less than 15 minutes.
Buckland takes a small cut from your salary; they post you to franchised schools. Owen has a catalogue of his partner schools in his office; it has pictures of the campuses, dwelling places of FTs, personnel and sometimes of tourist spots in the area as well. BUckland isnsists on a minimum level of equipment in the apartment put at the disposal of a FT, and I for one would consider the level of comfort offered good.
I am surprised to read that someone felt neglected by Buckland; it has always been my impression that Owen and his wife look after FTs extremely well. BUt, of course, if you intend making a nuisance of yourself they might wish to drop you like a hot potato!
I have read printouts of emails that were exchanged by Owen's wife with some foreign job applicants; it is amazing what some people ask, or how often they ask the same question, and how nagging they can become. On average, Owen says, an FT makes 40 enquiries before they agree to a job offer!
You can guess how frustrating this can be for a recruiter! |
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millie
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 413
Location: HK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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I don�t personally know anything about Buckland, but Spiderman Too provided some links to information that might make you wonder what sort of journey into hell you had signed up for.
That place seems to be a land very remote from the paradise where:
| Roger wrote: |
| Buckland houses recruits in generously-appointed rooms in a brand-new block |
Then, as life would have it, teachers get upset�.
| Roger wrote: |
BUt, of course, if you intend making a nuisance of yourself they [Buckland] might wish to drop you like a hot potato!
I have read printouts of emails that were exchanged by Owen's wife with some foreign job applicants; it is amazing what some people ask, or how often they ask the same question, and how nagging they can become. ..
You can guess how frustrating this can be for a recruiter! |
These teachers are just a bothersome nuisance, aren�t they? |
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Spiderman Too
Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 732
Location: Caught in my own web
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Didn't you proclaim here recently (a few months ago) that you have turned your back to teaching English in China? |
WTF????
Find the post Roger (mission impossible)!
Remember back in July when you stated that I had declared I wouldn't work for less than 150 RMB per hour and then I provided a link to the months-earlier post where I had revealed my actual (much-less-than 150 RMB/hr) salary?
Ahhh, never mind! As boundless as the gesture may be, I'll adopt 'make allowances for Roger' as part of my New Year resolutions. |
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Esther
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: Oh no! |
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Hhhmmm,
Well that has given me something to think about! Thanks everyone for their comments, it's not looking to good for Buckland.
Does anyone know of any sites where I could get info about other recruiters or schools, (I'm having trouble finding stuff that's not directly related to the company) or is it mostly word of mouth from sites like this?
Thanks again,
Esther |
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Super Mario
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 1022
Location: Australia, previously China
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Esther, a couple of sites that describe schools and give direct links are:
http://www.findaschool.org/index.php?Country=China
and
www.chinatefl.com
There are no doubt good recruiters out there, as well as a lot of schools that don't exactly scrub up too well. Do your homework as well as you can. If a school won't answer your specific questions re important issues, drop them. But you can still end up in a bum posting. Its just a gamble we all take in this game.
As for vegetarianism......Yes,. Chinese eat a lot of vegetables, but the stuff in restaurants usually has some rendered pork fat in the mix as flavoring. So, either cook for yourself or find an area that has a lot of Buddhist restaurants!
But then, what you don't know doesn't hurt. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Roger wrote: |
| Of all the numerous agents in the PR of C, this is one of a very small handful that I would recommend! |
I tend to agree with Roger on this. There are only probably three recruiters in China that I am aware of that do their jobs pretty well - Buckland, New Times International, and One World Development.
This is not to say that you are guaranteed not to have any problem with these companies, it is just not likely that you will have a serious problem with them and I think that this is all that you can really hope for.
| Roger wrote: |
| Anyway, Buckland has seen thousands of FTs, so I would expect a number of problematic cases to have accumulated in which BUckland wasn't entirely without blame. There would still be a huge number of satisfied FTs! |
I agree with this too.
It is a numbers thing. Yes there are a handful of teachers that have posted about problems with Buckland. But considering how many teachers pass through Bucklands doors the number that have complaints is only a small fraction. This does not of course make the complaints invalid, but it does suggest that overall this company is getting it right more than they are getting it wrong.
Also you really need to look at the jist of the complaint. Is it a serious complaint? Is it a complaint that you yourself may have if you dealt with the company? If the answers to these two questions are 'yes' then you are probably best finding work elsewhere. If you anwer 'No' however, then surely there is nothing wrong with going with that company.
| Roger wrote: |
| Buckland houses recruits in generously-appointed rooms in a brand-new block; the premises is outside Yanbgshuo and not in the heart of the small town; you may consider this a drawback. But you can walk to West Street in less than 15 minutes. |
OK there is one plus straight away. Some schools and recruiters may promise accomodation on arrival, only for that to disappear once you actually arrive. It does seem that Buckland do actually have reasonable accomodation waiting for you so that promise is not broken.
| Roger wrote: |
| Buckland takes a small cut from your salary; they post you to franchised schools. |
I don't like the fact that the recruiter is involved with the teachers salary. I have heard that Owen from Buckland will require the school to pay many months of the teachers wage upfront to ensure that it is paid and then he gives it out each month. Assuming that he is 100% legit then this is of course a good thing for teachers, however I still don't like the idea, nor the fact that the teacher works and the recruiter takes a cut each month. I believe that Owen does offer a level of service to his teachers which in some way validates the above, but I still don't think that it is teachers best interests.
As far as sending teachers out to schools it is likely that many of these teachers are being employed illegally on F visas. While this does not seem to be a problem in some provinces and not a problem for some teachers, I believe that recruiters and schools should be upfront about the practice. If the teacher chooses to work on an F visa then great, everyone is happy, but if a teacher wants to only work legally under a Z visa then at least it is clear upfront and Bucklands can either say yes this job can offer a Z or no we can't help you.
| Roger wrote: |
| I am surprised to read that someone felt neglected by Buckland; it has always been my impression that Owen and his wife look after FTs extremely well. |
I also get this impression from foreign teachers who have used their services. There are quite a number of positive comments about Bucklands along these lines and this is what makes me think that they could be worth a look.
| Roger wrote: |
| You can guess how frustrating this can be for a recruiter! |
That is the business they choose to do so I am not so sure that they can really complain about it.
| Esther wrote: |
| Does anyone know of any sites where I could get info about other recruiters or schools, (I'm having trouble finding stuff that's not directly related to the company) or is it mostly word of mouth from sites like this? |
You can get information about other teachers experiences with schools at:
www.buxiban.com
www.chinaschoolreview.net |
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millie
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 413
Location: HK
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:43 am Post subject: |
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Why even use an agent or recruiter anyway 
Given that they are essentially in this business to get their commissions, ask yourself what significant service or advantage do they provide to you, the teacher, in any case?
They don�t have any direct control over schools that they farm you out to (unless is a part of their chain of schools).
By removing the middle-man from the equation, you remove one more source of potentail problems.
In fact, your problems could simply make you their "hot potato" as has been noted here!
There are lots of government school, colleges and university that advertise and accept direct applications. {Government institutions are probably more to be trusted than the rest.}
The links above provide places to start and a 'net search will turn up more.
Good luck.
M |
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Li Da
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:46 am Post subject: Buckland Group is a reputable recruiter |
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Hi:
I came to China through the Buckland Group one year ago. I have had the most fantastic year of my life. Much of it due to Owen and the staff at Bucklands, not to mention the fabulous people of China.
It is well worth the trip. Don't worry about being a vegetarian. They have great veggies here and good tofu too.
Li Da |
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Babala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:04 am Post subject: |
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About being a vegetarian...
I have had a few freinds over here who were and they didn't have too much trouble. Watch out though, the Chinese don't consider seafood or fish to be meat. If you order fried rice and say that you don't want any meat you may still end up with seafood and fish. |
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pc-pocket
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| Spiderman Too wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Didn't you proclaim here recently (a few months ago) that you have turned your back to teaching English in China? |
WTF????
Find the post Roger (mission impossible)!. |
hahahah You do not know "R"...... 
| Babala wrote: |
About being a vegetarian...
I have had a few freinds over here who were and they didn't have too much trouble. Watch out though, the Chinese don't consider seafood or fish to be meat. If you order fried rice and say that you don't want any meat you may still end up with seafood and fish. |
The only meat in Fried Rice is little squares of ham. Fried Rice is a Cantonese dish (Guangzhou) It's all about oil here...
Vegetarians? Restaurants always have dozen of dishes without meat or fish.
Lots of vegetable and tofu dishes are available here: Try "Xiang Qie Zi Bao", there are 3 flavors possible: Fish, meat or plain eggplants. |
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Super Mario
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 1022
Location: Australia, previously China
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| The only meat in Fried Rice is little squares of ham. Fried Rice is a Cantonese dish (Guangzhou) It's all about oil here... |
Yangzhou Chao Fan is the king of fried rices and that's hardly in Guangzhou.
The trick with "vegetarian" dishes is that often rendered pork fat is used in the cooking.
Preparing your own food and finding a Buddhist eatery are the safest bets. |
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