Job Discussion Forums

[Clearcrystal]

Chow Yue Foreign Language School
A cheng city (40 minutes away from Harbin)
Heilongjiang


I have been working for a small school just outside Harbin for the past year and up until recently I have had no problems with my boss. She begged me that if I wanted to leave her school I should tell her a month before the end of my contract for the sake of my students.(as she intimated that she would need to get another foreign teacher) So when the time came I told her .-Big Mistake!!!!

The Spring Festival brought not only happiness and laughter to my boss and her school but an extra 15 000 RMB .
She told me a few days before the start of the Spring festival and what happened to be my pay day that she wouldn't be requiring my services any longer and that I was free to go. I asked her why and her reply ,quite irregularly , was ,"I don't believe you will return after the Spring Festival"

-Now , my contract finishes one month after the spring festival so I certainly will be coming back so i can get that free flight home that's owed to me by my boss upon the completion of my contract.

To add to that she had taken the months salary that was owed to me on that day as a fee taken for the breaking of the contract ...that i will presumably break for not returning after the spring festival.

When I offered her my passport, for some absurd reason, to reassure her I would be returning after the spring festival ...she refused with a laugh.

After a visit to the police station and being laughed at by the police there - who, later I found , were all her friends "and with little or no money in my pocket, " I decided to go home with the help of a friend.

What could I have done?????? I had no witnesses , I had all her family and police with hands wide open for a piece of the 15 000 rmb cake that had been taken from me.

I wish this school headed by Mrs Jia would learn that there are consequences for treating westerners like this ....but apparently there aren't .

I would like to say thank you to Richard , who in my panick helped me to get home....Thanks!

[vikdk]

I don't know how common this ploy is - sacking to jump out of contractual obligation - but i have heard this kind of story before, and met the people affected while it was happening.

Contracts - who wants to try and fight for their rights in this kind of situation - just think about it the time, the language probs, the potential costs - all pilled upon the shock to the system of being treated in such a manner, and the disadvantage the FT often feels in dealing with officialdom here.

And what should we do? - well if the prob is legit at least give the people treated in this scandalous way not only good advice but,maybe, also the chance of safe haven, so thay can at least find somewhere to hang out while they try to digest what has happened.

You were a bit far away crystal, but anyone in the west of China with a real prob like this then give me a PM

[HunanForeignGuy]

[bendan]

Are you sure about the name of the city and school? If you want to warn people, you have to get that bit right. Try and post some photos of the school, too.

[kev7161]

Well, another tragic story. We hear variations of this all the time. It's a shame the OP had to go through with this.

A word of advice to others reading this - - save some money! You never know when the rug is going to get yanked from beneath you. Plan a future just like you would at home. Jobs can disappear for a variety of reasons and, if you don't have a little nest egg somewhere, the pain and hardships can be a lot worse.

I don't know what I would've done in the OP's case, but I probably would have tried to find some temporary work (I know, I know - - hard to do at Spring Festival break AND at the last minute) and then showed up the 1st day of the new semester, ready to complete my contract. Now saying that, I probably WOULDN'T complete the term if there was no money that first day back, but showing up may have changed some things around. Who's losing face NOW?

With 20/20 hindsight, it's probably best not to give a month's notice anymore. However, I'm wondering, what school is it that has a contract that lasts until a month AFTER the Spring Festival? Most go from September 1st(ish) to the last day before the break. New contracts go from the first day after the break to June 30th(ish).

[Spiderman Too]

There are many private language schools / colleges / universities in China and I know that they are not all bad. But having read innumerable reports similar to Clearcrystal�s, I wouldn�t take the risk of working at one.

[latefordinner]

How many more of these stories do we need to read? Once again we find that, although not all Chinese schools are ruthless and crooked, it sure pays to bet that way. Heartfelt condolences, Clearcrystal.

[Roger]

You have my undivided sympathy. I know how youfelt upon being complimented out of your job by that dragon lady; it is rather common at this time of the year since the protracted holiday season is a foolproof invitation for many business people to ditch staff and to cheat others out of their dues.

I have a couple of questions, though: were you working at a 'xiaoxue'? A real primary school? How come they have a Cantonese-sounding moniker ('Chow')? Any links to Hong Kong?

And: did you sign a regular contract and obtain a residence permit?

Why did you go to the PSB? WHose idea was that?

Redress hinges on the answers you have to these questions; while I am not a fan of China'sedia I can telluch a case, especially in the hinterland of Manchuria would potentially be welcome nourishment for some editor in search of scandals! You could even try the CHINA DAILY.

Of course, your case must be solidly anchored in rock, and it is imperative that only cases with merit come to the attention of the hacks you want to befriend.

[vikdk]

for those wishing to come to china, and who are wondering how on earth they defend themselves against a situation like this - I'm afraid if something like this actually does occur - regardless of all the good advice of the why didn't you do this or that pundits - the most natural (and understandable) reaction is to run to safe ground, which, especially for those with the least China experience, is very often home.

For many people, if treated in such a way, China suddenly becomes an appalling place - those irritations which before were tolerated as an almost interesting part of the China experience - the staring, spitting, pushing, driving, the pollution, the noises, tastes and smells (just to name a few) - can suddenly unite and launch a combined full frontal assault on any sensibilities you have left! In short incidents like crystal went through are, in my opinion, the major reason why China is such a pizz hard country to live in - and a reason why the vast majority of those treated in same way as her have to make a long, long, long retreat - and hopefully try to forget what happened.

for those who actually decide to stay, and find a new job - even though the injustice meted against you will sting for a long time to come - China quickly reverts from the intensely irritating back into the highly fascinating (at least for a some of us) - and with a bit of perseverance your China experience will live to fight another day.

But on a personal note - in my experience - I've found that to get the good times rolling again it sometimes pays to put the bad times behind you. Trying to get what we call justice here really can be a head against a very hard wall activity - but then again some folk seem to tick on that - but personally if I start to fume here I have learnt that it can pay to take a deep breath and take time in weighing up the pros and cons of attacking the source of that fire.

On an objective note, what is important is that you warn other folk about potential traps - that can be an effective counter-measure - after all it's not so much about the teaching abilities of FT�s in China, but being able to navigate around those traps that seems to sort out the vets from the newbies here.

[Itsme]

and this is of course why we need to have some sort of centralized messaging system, like Dave's, to let everyone know about these types of experiences. The internet is a pretty big place and information is scattered all over the place. How many black lists are there? How many people actually share their good/bad experiences? Imagine yourself about to sign a contract with "yay fun Englishtime center" when you come across the following on the net:

Bob: anyone heard of XXYYZZ XiaoXue?
lala: why yes. I was cheated out of my money and the police laughed me out of China.
Bob: thanks.

Now, not everyone who states that they were cheated have in fact been cheated. Sometimes certain things are thrown in to the story; but if 30 people have the same experience then the reliability increases- maybe.

Sometimes I hear these stories about people being told- that they will be paid next month... next month...next month... for 6 months in a row. Frankly, if you are gullible enough to let that happen to you then there may not be much hope for you.

Unfortunately, we must also be a bit discrete about complaining about companies. Often times employers just make up some name when recruiting people online. "Wondertime child yay fun time English center" may really be called something else in China. Employers may periodically change the English name for the specific purpose of avoiding the problem of a bad reuptation on the internet.

So what should be done? How can Billybob, who has just spent $$$$ on a course and $$$$ for a ticket and hours and hours of doing research on the net, protect himself before coming??
Any sugestions?

[vikdk]

[clark.w.griswald]

Personally I think that the onus of best ensuring that you as an individual give yourself the best chance of working in China successfully is based entirely upon the amount of research that you as an individual do BEFORE you come to China. Afterall any problems that you encounter will ultimately be your problem to deal with, so the more prepared you are the better. Why rely upon advice from others after the fact when you could possibly have been pre-emptive in avoiding such problems in the first place. Condolences can be nice but they don't put food in your mouth! Also, considering that enforcement of abuses will vary from province to province, it is obviously far better to avoid problems than to try and deal with them after the fact.

It seems to me that there are two main areas that newbies should really concentrate on when coming to teach in China for the first time:

1. Researching schools and the cities that schools are located in. Checking to see if there are any comments available from past teachers. Contacting teachers listed on sites that offer a 'Teacher Mentors List'. Checking conditions such as student level, pay and number of hours to ensure that these are suitable to your needs. Doing some research on the location of the school and what that city has to offer etc. Google can be a good friend for all of this.

2. Familiarizing yourself with the basic visa, employment, and contract regulations, as well as the standard practices in the province that the teacher is aiming to head to. Much of this is now available in English online and is worth reading so that you have an idea of where you would stand if things go wrong. I wouldn't take these regulations as being Bible, but they are certainly a worthwhile guide, particularly if you choose to seek mediation or a higher judgement against an employer.

All of the above can be done online, and in English.

I am constantly amazed by the number of newbies who post on this forum with questions such as 'I have just signed a contract and will be arriving next week - what kind of visa do I need to work in China?' or even worse, 'I arrived in China last week and am working for company ABC. Does anybody have any experience with this company?' Surely these sorts of questions should have been asked and answered prior to making a committment to a company or arriving in China.

A quick look at the complaints about schools that you tend to get on boards such as Daves will show that they are largely the same old complaints over and over again; and often about exactly the same schools or recruitment companies that have been complained about for exactly the same reasons before. Why do teachers keep signing up at schools that have bad reputations? It seems that this can only be due to greed or a lack of preparation by the teacher. This is not to say that it is the teachers fault for getting mixed up with a bad school, but if you are a fly you are probably best advised not to knowingly enter a spiders web!

I think that the OP in this thread is in somewhat of a different boat and I join others in sympathizing with him or her. It seems clear that in this case the school ripped the teacher off pure and simple. It would be interesting to hear from the school as to what their justification for their actions is! Possibly the only advice that I could give in hindsight is that as the school in question is not a well known school and not easily researched it may have best been avoided by a newbie. While in some situations no news can be good news, in the case of selecting schools to work at in China lack of information about a school may be good cause to avoid that school in favor of a more well known company until you have some on the ground experience in China.

Finally, how can we teachers best help our fellow teachers? I think that the answer is obvious. Let's get the word out about the good schools in China. Let's all spend as much time writing positive reviews about good schools as we do complaining about bad schools. It would seem to me that a greenlist of good schools to work at would be far more beneficial than blacklists of bad schools as it tells teachers where to go rather than leaving them with information on where not to go.

In the case of this thread, I have not seen Chow Yue Foreign Language School named on any blacklists so how could any teacher possibly know that it was a school to avoid. If however there was a comprehensive list of good schools and that school was not named on that list then it may be an indication that that school is best avoided by a newbie due simply to a lack of information.

As many of you know, I am involved in the compiling of information for a Greenlist of Good schools and I welcome any of you to PM me with information about schools that you think are worth a look for foreign teachers in China. Please also outline the reasons why you consider these schools to be worthwhile and I will ensure that this information is made available to teachers who are seeking it.

[vikdk]

This thread really doesn't deserve a flame up, but I am a little at odds with what Clark writes. Don't get me wrong it all seems good solid advice - but on deeper reflection it does seem to lack imagination, and water down alternative possibilities regarding finding teaching jobs in China.

1. with so many changes happening everyday in the Chinese educational market - changes in management and ownerships of schools/teaching companies, changes of name, copying of names (I'm not even going to talk about hearsay and false net-info), why do Clark use the word entirely in the following sentence-

[clark.w.griswald]

You are certainly entitled to your opinions vikdk and I am certainly not going to argue with them. Nothing that you have said is terribly original, but that does not in any way invalidate your comments. I will however answer the questions that you have directed toward me.

[vikdk]

Dear Clark please don't start to make this a flame subject - I know you've been writing here many years, so I'll kowtow in honour of your great experience and mighty wisdom while asking you to elaborate on something for me.

you wrote-