Job Discussion Forums

[frognation]

Hello again,

Today 8 teachers ( 7 Japanese and 1 American) were informed that our request to leave early, May 23rd, was denied by the Gov't. They feel that we are safe enough and there is no need to leave. We are not sure exactly which government, local or provincial, has make this decision.

I am not afraid of catching SARS so much as I am afraid of not being able to get out when the time comes. Although my area is fairly safe now, this could change and travel could be limited. The students are on lock down however teachers can come and go as we like.

I could always terminate my contract and pay my own way home, assuming this is what they are really after. I am slightly afraid they would try to stop me should I do this.

Can anyone explain to me why the Gov't cares so much if teachers want to go home early. We all sort of feel that this should be a personal decision.

Thanks for any insight.

Froggy

[arioch36]

For fear of being embarrassed before their political rivals? Let's face it, SARS has become a convenient forum in which to get rid of one's political opponents

[gmat]

Seems dubious to me. Are you sure that the government denied the request? Could be the school is using a 'denial from government' as an excuse to not let you go.

Some teachers here received approval from the university president and have gone or are leaving soon - with airfare reimbursed!

[hubei_canuk]

Ifg you don't know who denied it then most probably it is a lie.
Most probably your school boss denied it.
Don't be a wooz, Track it down.
Go to the Foreign Affairs Office in your city and demand accountiblilty.
Demand the school reveal the source of the phoney "denial".
Threaten to stop working unless you get the truth.

[frognation]

Yes, I agree. I think it is the school and not the gov't. I can't really understand it though because this school has been very good to me all year.

Their suggestion was to just stay in my apartment and not teach class. Why are they willing to pay me not to teach instead of just letting me go home? Is there any advantage to this, other than being able to say they still have a foreign teacher?

Unfortunately, my city is not a city, but a small town out in the boondocks. There is no Foreign Affairs office here. I will contact the Embassy in Shanghai.

Thanks for the info.

Froggy

[hubei_canuk]

"Is there any advantage to this, other than being able to say they still have a foreign teacher?"
- frognation
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that is a good reaon Froggie. After all you are there to publicize the place, teaching is never that important. Anybody want to argue with me.
..
Another good reaon. Mr. Frog, is that if they send you home it might say "we've got sars" to people.
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Your district MUSt be covered by a FAO jurisdiction. Doesn't matter how far away, each area is covered by one office which will report to the captial of your province.
Why do i say MUST? Because the FO gets your work permit and your foreign expert card upon your arrival. It has authority to issue and revoke license to school.
Presuming you are at a legal school with leagl papers, z visa, resident card and expert's card, that is.
..
You just have to find out what city your local guys are in..
Of course the easy way is if the school would tell you.
I know, fat chance.
...
You have an embassy that would dare to interfere in China's internal affairs?
..
Americans are lucky, they got aggressive protective consulates. In Taiwan and Mainalnd they really take care of their citizens.
Canadian consulates (mine) are poofcakes. (is that a word? sounds right).

[MyTurnNow]

Our maple-flavored Hubei friend is absolutely right. The Foreign Affairs office in question is usually a branch of the Public Security Bureau (ie Police). They're the place you need to start. Every open town in China (these days pretty much all of them) should have its own FA office, or at least have one nearby. You hopefully will not have to go all the way to the Embassy or Consulate, or even to a provincial capital, to handle this!

If your Chinese isn't fluent, try to find a friend to help you. Don't entrust this to a school office flunky. Your school is pretty definitely yanking you.

MT

[hubei_canuk]

"The Foreign Affairs office in question is usually a branch of the Public Security Bureau (ie Police). They're the place you need to start." MTN
...
No sorry MTN, FA is a separate arm of Government. Each local FA office reports directly to the Head office in the capital of each province. I am very familiar with their operations and their relationships to the PSB. The FA in each city is part of the municipal government of that city. For instance the PSB got suspicious about something about a foreigner once and investigated him. The FA sat in on the investigation/interogation but ddid not participate. They might have had influence on the outcome but they had no authority call the investigation off or start it.
..
Anyway it's quibling semantics, you are generally right on what approach to take..
Only it helps to understand the organization of the various authorities.
Foreign affairs first gets work permit and Expert card from provincial government. they have power over the schools. They can fine the schools, criticise them, revoke their license.
Foreign Affairs has REAL power over the schools. Only question is .. in your area do they exercise it?
In point of fact they usually do and not on side of the schools but according to their national mandate which is to modernize the country.
In my province FA office has really brought my school to task when they tried stuff.
...
But other places might be different.
I recommend every teacher find out where their FA is in their city, drop in, pay a social call. They are usually delighted to meet you or practicee english, Then later when you have a problem you know who to call.
..
The other documentation, Zvisa and resident card comes from the PSB where your signed and stamped contract is field. school has to cough up about 1000 to 1500 rmb for your visa and resicdent card to the PSB.
Profitable,? yes-no-yes?

[frognation]

Hey Hubei - Thanks for the breaking it down for me. The info certainly sheds some light on the situation.

By the way, this frog is a Ms. Frog

[JamesD]

I've talked to several friends who teach in different cities. In most of them the government has called the schools (private schools) and told them that if foreigners want to leave they cannot be detained in any way. Your school is jerking you. If they don't let you leave then call the closest consulate of any country and tell them you are being held against your will.
If you leave early I don't see why the school has to honor the contract since you aren't, but that's a choice you have to make.

[Anne-Marie Gregory]

In a province where there isn't any SARS I've heard of a teacher not being supported when they want to leave...and elsewhere in a SARS-free area....of all the FEs being asked to leave.
I spoke to my FAO yesterday about someone else's situation. He said that the central government has asked them to help FEs in any way they can. Our provincial government (Henan...about 13 cases) has recently said that colleges should help FEs to leave (flights etc) if they want to, and to stay if they want to. I was offered this. My advice....find out what the position is at the provincial level.

[Hamish]

Here in Baoding we have stopped almost all classes and students are confined to the campus. If they leave, they cannot return.

Teachers are free to do anything. We have been told that the college will provide us with anything we need or want, including travel home and a return ticket when the problem is over. We are staying and will show movies, in English with English subtitles, in a small auditorium here.

It is in no way heroic. We are old people and have not got much time left to live anyway. Our country is the US and we don't want to go there anytime soon. At least we are not visiting America until after the 2004 elections.

Perhaps, not even then depending on the outcome.

But I digress.

Regards,

[MyTurnNow]

Thanks, HC...
I was probably confused. In the city where I had the best knowledge of all this the PSB _ALSO_ had an FA section. The multi-headed beast of Chinese bureaucracy is tough to sort out.

MT

[MW]

Bejing has issued an official directive to all Foreign Expert employers. It is the option of the FE to go or stay.

The employer is directed to give all support and assistance to the FE no matter what their personal decision.

Some schools are ignoring this directive when they deny a request to leave and one can go to the Minister of education at the Provincial level for assistance.

Some school are forcing their Fe's to leave using SARS as the excuse when in reailty they are unhappy with the FE's for other reasons.

[hubei_canuk]

"Bejing has issued an official directive to all Foreign Expert employers. It is the option of the FE to go or stay.

The employer is directed to give all support and assistance to the FE no matter what their personal decision.

Some schools are ignoring this directive when they deny a request to leave and one can go to the Minister of education at the Provincial level for assistance." MW
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Is there any proof of this directive? How can i find out?
I have teachers asking me about this.
If this is true, them the teacher that fled here did not break his contract.