Job Discussion Forums

fallon77 · Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 105 Location: Harbin

A recruiter offers you a job -- 14000 RMB a month (including apart.). Do you pay him/her? Is this a wise investment?

Super Mario · Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:32 am Post subject:

If its a reasonable one-off fee, and if the job checked out as genuine, I'd consider it.
No-one should need help finding a job in China, but jobs in this salary area may not be advertised in the usual places, if at all.
However, it should be the school that pays the recruiter.

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

Certainly the market dictates that the school pays the recruiter and this is how most schools and recruiters work.

Personally though I think that this system is flawed in some respects. If the school is paying the recruiter then the recruiter is working for the school. If I were asking a recruiter to help me find work then I would prefer that the recruiter was working for me.

I believe that if the teacher covered the recruiters fee then we could dictate more of the terms. For example, half upfront, half after two months provided that the job is as promised. If not then I would expect that the recruiter found me a new job as promised before getting the second half of his fee.

In some cases such a system could also help to eradicate penalties for breaching early as the school would not need to cover the money that they paid to the recruiter. In other words your leaving is no longer a cost to the school and just becomes an inconvenience.

Of course the biggest advantage is that the recruiter could likely offer you the job that you want rather than the job that he or she has. A recruiter that could approach any school and introduce a teacher for free would be welcome in almost any institution, and would likely get the first call should a position open up. Why not - the school doesn't pay anything, but still gets a teacher!

Finally, the recruiter is working for you and you are paying him or her so if they don't do their job, they don't offer you what you are looking for, or they fail to provide the after placement service that you are seeking then you can walk and they get nothing.

All of this relies upon the fact that your arrangement would need to be exclusive with that recruiter as far as the recruiter would need to guarantee not to collect any fee from the school. You could always confirm this with a school prior to placement.

The biggest problem with all of this however is that you the teacher need to fork out the dough to cover for this service. I agree that you shouldn't, nor do you need to, pay to get work. But if a recruiter is working on your behalf and can find a better position, or better pay, or a job much quicker, than you can yourself then why not.

KES · Joined: 17 Nov 2004 Posts: 722

clark:

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

Spiderman Too · Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject:

I'm with Super Mario on this one, but I'd only pay upon signing of a contract with the school.

At face value, 14,000 per month would give me around 70,000 more per year than I'm earning at present so I'd be prepared to hand over 7,000 for services rendered.

In reality, I'd expect that such a high paying position would involve a lot more work than the 20 X 45 minute periods I do now and so I may not want the job anyway.

WordUp · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 131

I got a great job through my agent. They were also a registered company in the United States so if I wasnt happy with them, I've got the option to get my money back or at least sue. From what I've been reading here, its near impossible to win in China if a school or Chinese recruiter cheats you.

Richard L

Brian Caulfield · Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 1247 Location: China

In China people only have one laoban . If you are working for two people then no one is looking after your interest. There are too many recruiters in China . Usually people use recruiters because they don't have the skills to deal directly with people .

WordUp · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 131

My contract is directly with the school and the agreement I have with the company that made the introduction is a gaurantee for the quality of experience in China the terms spelled out clearly with a clear methodology for problem resolution.

As a corporate attorney, formerly working 90 hours a week and presenting cases in front of a jury. I am comfortable with my people skills.

I can understand why so many people here bash recruiters but as someone who has done their homework - I chose a local company based in the United States (which is where I am from) and have had an ongoing relationship with that office for several months before making the decision. No one tried to stuff candy in my ear and what impressed me the most was that journeyeast really interviewed me and didnt make their decision to accept me right away despite my excellent credentials.

It seems to me that it would be more beneficial for new folks who had no experience dealing with Chinese to have this umbrella of protection. Not every recruiter is honorable and provides the same level of service. Not everyone can afford the service I paid for, but it is a service I chose. There seems to be a market for it, and it works.

I'd rather go the way I did then to go to China through a Chinese recruiter or school and have no protection. I've actually witnessed their service in action and I would recommend them to anyone.

Richard L

LeiShan · Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 41

For an ESL regular classroom gig not likely as they are easy to come by. If I wanted to use my professional skills in a corporation or a non education milieu then I might consider it. It definitely would have to be a professional level salary!

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

Brian Caulfield · Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 1247 Location: China

A recruiter who I dealt with in the past offered me a job at a university in Beijing for 6,000 rmb last month . I did some research and found that if I dealt directly with the school I could get 8,000 rmb. This is what is really going on . Of course I was told they were just doing it as a favour for a friend and so they and their friend gets to pocket that 2,000 each month .
It has been my experience in 15 years working overseas that the jobs that I had that I stayed on for two to four years were ones where I dealt directly with the school .

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

I agree that it is probably best to avoid these types of recruiters if you can and this is one reason why paying the recruiter yourself through an exclusive arrangement can be to your advantage.

It could certainly be said that what does it matter how much the recruiter makes as long as you are earning a wage that you are happy with. While I would agree to this in theory, I think that it can make a difference in practice. If the school is paying RMB8,000 then they are going to want you to earn that money. If you are only earning RMB6,000 however then you are only going to be willing to deliver RMB6,000 worth of work. This discrepancy can lead to misunderstandings if all parties are not aware of the discrepancy (which they generally aren�t) and the only real winner is the agent.

While I personally have no problem with agents collecting an introduction fee for their work, I certainly do not see any basis for them to be taking a cut of the teachers wage each month.

Babala · Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1303 Location: Henan

I would not pay a recruiter. I admit I do have a bias against recruiters so I never use one no matter what the circumstances. I think you could find a high paying position on your own.

WordUp,
I know more people who have been screwed over by a foreign recruiter than a Chinese one.

vikdk · Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 1676