Job Discussion Forums

[chimchim]

I heard a story about a teacher working at a small buxiban. She had two students (I believe they were in the 4th grade) that just couldn't stand one another. They always fought, verbally and physically, and she spent much of the class time trying to smooth things out. She did not receive too much support from the school's administration, which consisted of the principal and one head chinese teacher.
One evening the two students were yelling insults at each other. The teacher had had it with the both of them. She sent one of the students outside for a five minute "timeout." After the five minutes, she sent the other boy and brought the other one back in. Afterwards, everything was fine. The parents of the boy who was sent out first complained to the school that the other boy should have been sent out first and not their son. They threatened the school saying that they would complain to the print media and the television stations.
The principal offered his solution to the parents: he fired the teacher. I guess this pleased the parents because they backed off of their threats.

Do parents really have this much power over a teacher's employment. If you have 15 students in a classroom, that means you probably have 30 different bosses that can decide your fate, regardless of how great of a teacher you are.

Any thoughts or opinions?

[Taylor]

Dear Chimchim and others,

This story sounds like an urban myth. I doubt there is any truth to it.

If the school was decent and the teacher was doing a good job, then it is inconceivable that she would have been fired for this.

It is very rare for children to be so disruptive in the classroom. I've been around kids in Kaohsiung for over 8 years and I can recall only one fight between two boys...and it looked more like a simple wrestling match. It happened in the hallway 30 minutes before class, anyway.

If this story is true, then the teacher is better-off anyway. There should have been more support for the teacher earlier on...this would have prevented the situation from escalating, anyway.

Best wishes,

Taylor
Kaohsiung

[clark.w.griswald]

Although this subject does not appear to have been raised by the school in question, my understanding is that it is against consumer law for a teacher to ask the student to leave the classroom for two reasons. One is that each student is a fee paying customer and is therefore entitled to the class time that they are paying for, and two is a security concern in that an unsupervised child outside a classroom can get into strife.

Of course this overlooks the rights of the other students in the class who lose the time that they are paying for as the teacher disciplines the offending student, but the law does seem clear that sending a student out of a class for any reason is inappropriate. It is possible that this issue was raised by the parents and may have been the reason that the school acted so harshly.

Whatever happened it seems to me that the school is clearly at fault in this case and acted very badly in making a scapegoat of the teacher. I would certainly like to know the name and branch of the school in question and welcome you to provide this if it is appropriate to do so.

The school should have provided the teacher with more support in my opinion, in an effort to resolve the problem earlier.

When things did escalate to the stage that parents became involved, I think that the school did themselves a great discredit to allow the parents to run the school. I acknowledge that they are the fee paying customers who keep the school in business, but I believe that there were other ways to deal with this problem that would have been less dangerous as far as setting a precedent which other parents are likely to follow.

It is clear that there is a niche market for schools who establish good quality controls in the classroom and it is clear that this school is not going to fill that niche.

[Xenophobe]

I had a student who was extremely disruptive(threw chairs and books) and I was told I could not remove him from the class, but I could adjust his attitude within the classroom as long as I didn't strike him(that was the job of the Chinese teacher only). I used an old trick from phys ed, known as the invisible chair. It's amazing how a build up of lactic acid can change someone's disposition. Back home, you have parents phoning the police and the school boards if you so much as look at their offspring for misbehaving. Well obviously shit didn't fall to far from the *beep* in those cases, which is why teaching here is still better than teaching at home.

[Taylor]

Dear Clark,

Thanks for your response to this post.

However, it is very difficult for me to imagine that a 'consumer law' deals with children who misbehave at private language schools/day care centers.

If there is a law that tries to get so specific (as you have presented), then where would it end? For example, would the 'invisible chair' be acceptable--as long as it is done in the classroom?

As I stated previously, I believe this story is an urban myth.

Taylor

P.S. (For all readers) Time-out is a pretty cheesy method of discipline--especially if you are dealing with rowdy, 4th grade boys. Just my .02

[Wonder]

Don't send them out of the classroom. Tell them they must stand at their desk while taking the lesson. Or just tell them to stand in the corner with their hands held over their head, and occasionally involve them in the lesson. It's much harder for them to focus when they're standing and makes them appear foolish to classmates.

They will soon get the message and the parents will probably applaud this form of discipline. I used to do it all the time and never had a complaint from any laobans or parents.

It also never hurts to move one child closer to your desk, and the other among a group of girls. And always keep and eye on them so they'll have to ask permission to blink their eyes. Trust me, it will work.

[Wonder]

Don't send them out of the classroom. Tell them they must stand at their desk while taking the lesson. Or just tell them to stand in the corner with their hands held over their head, and occasionally involve them in the lesson. It's much harder for them to focus when they're standing and makes them appear foolish to classmates.

They will soon get the message and the parents will probably applaud this form of discipline. I used to do it all the time and never had a complaint from any laobans or parents.

It also never hurts to move one child closer to your desk, and the other among a group of girls. And always keep and eye on them so they'll have to ask permission to blink their eyes. Trust me, it will work.

Moreover, I believe the OPs example is not an urban myth. I have personal knowledge of teachers being fired for less. There was also a teacher who was fired for inappropriate touching after five years of having an unblemished record. He was given no chance to defend himself.

So yeah, this Taiwan and anything can and will happen.

[Welshguy]

Do they, well I think in some places they do.
Should they have this much power? Of course they shouldn't.

My worst example in a class of fifteen was fifteen parents who all sat at the back to "monitor the lesson" didnt really cause me any problems cos I only stayed at the school for that one lesson!!!!

I have no troulble at all in believing the original posters tale.

W