Job Discussion Forums

dahillguy · Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 9

so...i've heard people hinting around this subject, but I am curious how this works. so, let's say i'm an american in spain and have "overstayed my welcome" of 3 months as a tourist (teaching english of course!). Is it possible for me to still travel around europe on my expired passport? traveling is one of the main reasons i came to work in spain.

anyone have any similar experiences? how do you travel in europe (or can you?) with an expired passport? do they even look at the date?

Moore · Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 730 Location: Madrid

Why don't you claim your passport got stolen and get a new from from the US embassy?
I certainly wouldn't recommend travelling without a current one, in most European countries it's an offence to just be in the street without up to date i.d.

wildchild · Joined: 14 Nov 2005 Posts: 519 Location: Puebla 2009 - 2010

I am not a trained expert in immigration law, but I believe the following to be true:

Normally, passports are good for about ten years or so. So, unless you got your passport around ten years ago, it should still be good i.e. not expired. If you have stayed in Spain longer than what is allowed under the visa waiver program, then this does not make your passport void. But if your passport has expired i.e. the expiration date on the passport (not the visa) has passed then yes, you should get that sorted out right away. I might suggest that you go to the nearest American consulate.

Otherwise, if your passport is still good, and you have otherwise overstayed your lawful visit in Spain (90 days), and you should happen to be stopped by the police and they notice the dates in your passport, they would have the right to deport you or force you to leave or whatever. So the question may be: what is the probability of this happening? Perhaps, not so likely, unless you appear to be a refugee from Africa or you get caught urinating in the street or whatever

So, for the moment, Americans are able to travel through EU countries without a visa. There has been discussion about requiring Americans to obtain visas as a retaliation to the US Dept. Homeland Security's increases in control e.g. biometric scans of the iris and fingerprints etc of Europeans. But for the moment, no visa is required for visits of less than 90 days (see specific country for actual time limit). If you should have a run in with the authorities, they will want to see your travel itenerary that shows that you will be leaving within 90 days. As far as I know, you may leave and then come back, but be sure to carry a travel itenerary that shows that you have been out of the country for a substantive amount of time i.e. not one afternoon.

Good luck!

neilfagan · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 10 Location: Australia

I assume by expired passport you mean expired visa (over 90 days) ?
Without a passport you can go - nowhere.
Contrary to wildersons advice, the following is true:

(1) Everyone needs a holiday visa when travelling to any country other than their own - this is universal (includes America)

(2) The visa is the stamp you get on entering a foreign country to validate your date of arrival and permits 90 days of stay

(3) Over staying your visa will not matter in Spain, but it will when you leave Spain - they can ban you for up 10 years if they feel like it

(4) The "visa waiver" means you dont have to prearrange a visa but rather you will get one on arrival

If you want to stay longer than 90 days to work etc there are lots of ways here are some

(1) On the 88th day of your visa, get a ferry or plane to Africa from Southern most Spain. Stay there a few days and return to Spain for a further three month stay. This is totally legal and no one can stop you doing this as you will be leaving Europe and re-entering.

(2) You can also do this by travelling to Ireland or Switzerland, though it may not be as straight forward as you are still technically in Europe.

I guess in short if you dont care about returning to Spain - overstay and run the risk. If you would like to return to Spain keep it sweet and your visa valid.

When entering any major airport your name will be registered. So even if you "loose" your passport they may still have a record of when you arrived.

Happy travels

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

neilfagan

Misleading. For this piece of work I give you an 'F' You flunk this course !

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I think neilfagan's probably right on at least one point - the o.p. probably isn't actually referring to an expired passport, but to the fact that he's overstayed his official 90 days in Spain. And I suppose he wants to know if he's going to be caught when he heads out of the country.
Possibly he will be. If you opt to live/work illegally, it's a hazard you have to face up to. No remedies. You might get in trouble. No way around it.

Albulbul · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 364

How did this guy get out of Kansas ? He says -

'1) Everyone needs a holiday visa when travelling to any country other than their own - this is universal (includes America)'

and then continues with other statements that would indicate he is a few cents short of the full buck.

UNREAL !

neilfagan · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 10 Location: Australia

I have reread my previous message and forgive me but i cannot find anything misleading or incorrect. My message was with regard to the options available to our friend, if he wanted to stay in Spain longer than the 90 days allowed to visitors. To clear up what i mean by "holiday visa"..... On entering most countries, your stay will be limited to 90 days - your holiday visa. Further clarification available on request.

Perhaps it was presumptious of me to assume that no one would travel on an expired passport. My mistake.

wildchild · Joined: 14 Nov 2005 Posts: 519 Location: Puebla 2009 - 2010

Is the original poster still around?
Well...there seems to be some confusion/disagreement, so let us continue:

I would ask you to please correct me if the following info is outdated, extremely incorrect, or no longer relevant; and note, I do not claim to be an immigration law expert but I believe the following to be true (as of 2003):

When traveling by train or bus in mainland Western Europe the national borders/frontiers are more or less without control (except major ports of entry) i.e. one is able to travel quite freely and without the stamping of passports, therefore, in the case that one does have a run-in with the authorities, it may be difficult to trace or determine the previous activities of the person in question. It is for this reason that the authorities will ask to see a travel itinerary that shows compliance with applicable laws (arrival and departure dates within 90 days). It is therefore suggested that one carry such a travel itinerary.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Mneilfagan

Not only misleading but full of groos errors of fact !

eg -

'(2) The visa is the stamp you get on entering a foreign country to validate your date of arrival and permits 90 days of stay '

This displays that you do not understand what a visa is or how it is issued !

A visa is permission to enter another country. It is commonly issued by Embassies or Consulates but may be issued on the border or at the point of entry. It is not ' a stamp...to validate your date of entry'

Lots of others. Worueber man nicht sprechen kann darueber soll man schweigen !

Moore · Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 730 Location: Madrid

So Scot47: are you actually going to give any information to help the o.p., or is it just sniping at Neilfagan, who did actually try to offer a bit of help, which is important here?

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Clearly the op is long gone. It's pretty common that when we can't tell them how to get around the law, they sign off forever. What could Scott say that would be useful to someone who's trying to find out how to live/work illegally without getting in trouble? It's a Catch-22. Can't be done without risk. period.

neilfagan · Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 10 Location: Australia

Original Post
"so...i've heard people hinting around this subject, but I am curious how this works. so, let's say i'm an american in spain and have "overstayed my welcome" of 3 months as a tourist (teaching english of course!). Is it possible for me to still travel around europe on my expired passport? traveling is one of the main reasons i came to work in spain. "

The question as i understood it..... was if he overstayed his 90 days in Spain and was caught, would that impact his travels around europe.
My suggestion was an alternate way to ensure he keep within the 90 days - by leaving and re-entering. This would also enable him to work longer than 3 months in one country and still be legal to be in that country.

Scott.....
Unless your passport is previously endorsed by an embassy or consulate, the stamp that you get at an airport or border which usually permits a stay of 90 days - is actually classed as a "holiday or tourist visa". However, arguing with you on this point is not why i logged on and considering the spirit in which i offered my suggestions, i find your responses both annoying and typical, especially as you offered nothing constructive yourself. I understood this forum to be a way of channelling ideas and arriving at useful conclusions not some vehicle for self righteousness.

Apologies to the rest of you for the boring nature of this discussion.