Job Discussion Forums

[denise]

OK, one of my students asked me something that I just can`t answer.

(we`re using Landmark upper intermediate, the bit on passive constructs)

I put four sample sentences on the board for them:

1) It is widely known that the Upper intermediate 2 students are awesome. (damn California vocabulary creeping into the classroom again!)

2) It is said that the tests are difficult.

3) 500 years ago, it was thought that the world was flat.

4) They say that in 10 years everyone will have a personal computer.

One student asked if the "that" could be omitted. I told her that in sentences 2-4, yes, it could. For some reason, sentence #1 doesn`t sound right without "that." Why?!?!? What is different about it? I am stumped. I told her that I`d find out as homework.

Thanks!!! And extra special thanks to anyone who can answer in the next, oh, 38 minutes!

d

[Glenski]

According to Practical English Usage, by M. Swan...
Section 481.5 and 560.1
don't drop "that" after common reporting verbs (she said that, I think that, he suggested that, for example). This is considered informal speech when you omit it.

Section 474.1
It can also be omitted when using "that" in relative clauses where the information is required (an identifying, defining, or restrictive clause).

No offense, but looking at those 4 sentences, it appeared to me that the word that could be omitted from all of them. Swan confirms it. I guess everyone just has a different sense for what "sounds" natural.

[denise]

Thank you! I trust you and I trust Mr. Swan, so your answer sounds fine!

d

[Gregor]

I concur.
It's too late to help, I know, but so long as the thread is still up, and my wife is still in Shenyang, I'd like to say that, as long as the relative pronoun isn't also serving as a subject, it should be OK to omit it. I can't think of any exceptions to that rule, and in your sentence number 1, it sounds fine to me without "that".

[YanquiQuilme�o]

Sentence one sounds fine to me without that.

Well, it sounds fine grammar-wise ... but it's one lame sentence either way!

[denise]