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kcat
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 35
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 Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: Japan vs. Korea for saving money? |
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| Hello, I'm not new to ESL but new to the idea of teaching in Japan. I spent 3 years in Korea and some time in Thailand (not on an official visa). Presently, I'd like to return to Asia and I know how bad (or great) it can turn out, and I'd like to do my "homework". I was wondering if anyone might be willing to help me understand the "writing behind the words" in the contract or give me some advice, as in my experience, this is what dictates the success of a potential job-HOMEWORK beforehand. If anyone has taught both places, I'd love to hear your thoughts. My biggest priority is saving money. I'm being offered 206595 from what appears to be a small cram school, 7 hour days, and the contract is simpler than anything I've seen come from Korea. Private/furnished housing that seems mostly rent-free. While I know about norms in Korea, I have no idea what is considered good, bad and ridiculous in Japan. ANY HELP is deeply appreciated. Thank you in advance. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I'm being offered 206595 from what appears to be a small cram school, 7 hour days, |
Are they calling this full-time work? You didn't say how many days a week, but I assume FT work.
This is far below what people have been getting for FT work, so I would not accept it.
| Quote: |
| Private/furnished housing that seems mostly rent-free. |
"Seems"????? Please explain. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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250,000 yen is the standard rate more or less in Japan, for 30 hrs/week with 2 days off.
In Korea, the pay is a little less, about 2 million won, but costs of living is quite a bit less. Korean schools throw in return airfare and free housing.
All in all I think you can save more in Korea, but the standard of living may not be as good. |
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kcat
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm being offered 206595 from what appears to be a small cram school, 7 hour days, |
Are they calling this full-time work? You didn't say how many days a week, but I assume FT work.
This is far below what people have been getting for FT work, so I would not accept it.
| Quote: |
| Private/furnished housing that seems mostly rent-free. |
"Seems"????? Please explain. |
Yes, and with 2 days off, 50,000 yen rent allowance (probably not that great). Honestly, it seemed to easy to get this job as in my experience, Japan is tough on people competing for the best jobs. Thank you for that information. MUCH APPRECIATED. |
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kcat
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Gordon wrote: |
250,000 yen is the standard rate more or less in Japan, for 30 hrs/week with 2 days off.
In Korea, the pay is a little less, about 2 million won, but costs of living is quite a bit less. Korean schools throw in return airfare and free housing.
All in all I think you can save more in Korea, but the standard of living may not be as good. |
I wasn't aware what was standard (now I am, thank you:)), 2 days off, 50,000 yen rent allowance (probably not that great). Honestly, it seemed to easy to get this job as in my experience, Japan is tough on people competing for the best jobs. Thank you for that information. MUCH APPRECIATED. No mention of airfare at all actually. The beauty of Korea is that living there can be very cheap if you let it (and I'm past the point of seeking out novelties there). I've already done it all. I guess it was the novelty of living in Japan and a change drawing me? I'm sick of Korea but I do see it as useful. Thank you very much. |
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kcat
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm being offered 206595 from what appears to be a small cram school, 7 hour days, |
Are they calling this full-time work? You didn't say how many days a week, but I assume FT work.
This is far below what people have been getting for FT work, so I would not accept it.
| Quote: |
| Private/furnished housing that seems mostly rent-free. |
"Seems"????? Please explain. |
By SEEMS I mean that they say I have rent-free but call it an "allowance" so it's unclear to me but naturally, red flags went up:) Life is not cheap in japan, and certainly not near Tokyo from what I've seen of the place. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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There is a difference, as you realize, between getting an apartment allowance (which usually suggests partial payment) and rent-free. Getting 50,000 yen/month is a sizeable portion of your rent, so don't sneeze at it. A single room apartment outside of the city center should run roughly 70,000-90,000. If I were you, I'd get them to clarify just how much I'd have to pay beyond the allowance.
| Quote: |
| Honestly, it seemed to easy to get this job as in my experience, Japan is tough on people competing for the best jobs. |
No offense, but isn't this the case anywhere? What is tough is the simple fact that people who don't live in a foreign country will usually find it hard to get a job there unless they can actually show up for the interview. Many employers take physical presence in Japan to mean some form of commitment to living and working here. If you don't already realize it, eikaiwas are not always looked upon as bastions of higher education, and their teachers are on the bottom rung of the working ladder, in terms of salaries and respectability. You might want to look at this article for a better taste of such image.
http://www.eltnews.com/features/special/015a.shtml
And, if you don't mind me being a bit sarcastic (fair warning to flamers!!), to say "the best jobs" is somewhat of a meaningless statement. There ARE good eikaiwa jobs, but by and large, it seems that most are just run of the mill work, and in my opinion, what makes or breaks it most often is the attitude of the teacher, not the employer. There are a lot of fly-by-night teachers in this country, and they don't do the reputation of the more serious ones any good. So, employers are learning to "adapt". It is their country, after all. |
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kcat
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
There is a difference, as you realize, between getting an apartment allowance (which usually suggests partial payment) and rent-free. Getting 50,000 yen/month is a sizeable portion of your rent, so don't sneeze at it. A single room apartment outside of the city center should run roughly 70,000-90,000. If I were you, I'd get them to clarify just how much I'd have to pay beyond the allowance.
| Quote: |
| Honestly, it seemed to easy to get this job as in my experience, Japan is tough on people competing for the best jobs. |
No offense, but isn't this the case anywhere? What is tough is the simple fact that people who don't live in a foreign country will usually find it hard to get a job there unless they can actually show up for the interview. Many employers take physical presence in Japan to mean some form of commitment to living and working here. If you don't already realize it, eikaiwas are not always looked upon as bastions of higher education, and their teachers are on the bottom rung of the working ladder, in terms of salaries and respectability. You might want to look at this article for a better taste of such image.
http://www.eltnews.com/features/special/015a.shtml
And, if you don't mind me being a bit sarcastic (fair warning to flamers!!), to say "the best jobs" is somewhat of a meaningless statement. There ARE good eikaiwa jobs, but by and large, it seems that most are just run of the mill work, and in my opinion, what makes or breaks it most often is the attitude of the teacher, not the employer. There are a lot of fly-by-night teachers in this country, and they don't do the reputation of the more serious ones any good. So, employers are learning to "adapt". It is their country, after all. |
I appreciate and agree with all you say; I do take my work very seriously and it's more a matter of recognizing "jobs that meet the going norm" for a female that is knowegable in Korea, not Japan. This school (some sort of cram school) appears to give a great deal of latitude and in my experience, it was never this "easy" to find Japense work, it really wasn't. I don't expect serious schools to neglect THEIR homework in regard to potential staff and I've lived in the ESL world for 4 years now. This boss seemed very ready to accept a teacher without much more than a resume, scanned passport and a picture. 50 000 allowance plus the salary-does that seem decent to you? I would fly to Japan and THEN begin seeking work but I can't afford that right now. I may decide upon Korea as I'm far more educated regarding life there but I wanted a bit of a change. Thank you again for your help, if money were not an issue I'd return to Thailand to volunteer or take work in a third world country. I prefer that type of work, I simply can't always afford it. |
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kcat
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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"No offense, but isn't this the case anywhere?"
Well, yes and no. I found that in places that could not afford to pay well, even comparatively good jobs were not so competetive, they couldn't afford to be. They were still good in comparison to most jobs but the location dictated the lack of strenuous reference-checking and educational demands...I suppose it depends on how one defines "a good job". In Japan, the pay is higher than in many countries in SE Asia, the Middle East, South America, ect...you get the idea. These are places I would prefer to be if I were not presently in debt as I was a crisis/NGO worker long before I was an English teacher. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| This boss seemed very ready to accept a teacher without much more than a resume, scanned passport and a picture. 50 000 allowance plus the salary-does that seem decent to you? |
206,000 yen/month plus 50,000 for rent amounts to roughly the standard wage here (250,000 to 280,000). That alone sounds normal and decent when you total the numbers. Don't know more details about the pay but the figure of 206,595 sounds odd. I would predict they are a penny-pinching bunch. It would be worthwhile to see what their contract says before flying here to sign it. Perhaps it has a lot of legalistic clauses or others pertaining to various financial items (overtime, late fines, etc.) that you would need to know.
As for accepting a teacher solely on the basis of a resume and passport, no, this does not sound decent. I would be on my toes with this employer. Look at it this way. Would YOU hire someone 7000 miles away without an interview? Heck, even a phone call would tell them (and YOU) something about who they are getting. |
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kcat
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Quote: |
| This boss seemed very ready to accept a teacher without much more than a resume, scanned passport and a picture. 50 000 allowance plus the salary-does that seem decent to you? |
206,000 yen/month plus 50,000 for rent amounts to roughly the standard wage here (250,000 to 280,000). That alone sounds normal and decent when you total the numbers. Don't know more details about the pay but the figure of 206,595 sounds odd. I would predict they are a penny-pinching bunch. It would be worthwhile to see what their contract says before flying here to sign it. Perhaps it has a lot of legalistic clauses or others pertaining to various financial items (overtime, late fines, etc.) that you would need to know.
As for accepting a teacher solely on the basis of a resume and passport, no, this does not sound decent. I would be on my toes with this employer. Look at it this way. Would YOU hire someone 7000 miles away without an interview? Heck, even a phone call would tell them (and YOU) something about who they are getting. |
I agree whole-heartedly, though they did request a phone interview and they provided me with a foreigner for a reference (5 years of employment and good reviews). The contract seemed lacking in details and I asked a good many questions. They do not provide a curriculum, they provide themes and this suits me fine but I sensed a lack of organization from the beginning; there was no website, the e-mail was a yahoo-based e-mail, it seemed rushed and not overly solid. The teacher I corresponded with says otherwise but agrees that the school is small-scale. I don't mind this, and I know how easily I can find jobs in Asia but I don't care to walk into a nightmare and I have in the past. I love teaching but I'm not wealthy enough to take stupid risks. I found the odd figure to be bizarre myself. Thank you again for your advice. I agreed to a phone interview but still feel tempted to run back into Korean life because it's familiar to me. I'm trying to save money to afford to offer services in another way (non-profit). I appreciate the feedback. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
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What would put the final nail in the coffin for me, if I were offered the job, would be to hear you say that they want you to come to Japan and start work before you have a work visa. Some employers are legit and simply need people fast because a teacher has suddenly resigned, but others are not so full of scruples. Those others get teachers to come on tourist status, promise them they will process their work visas, then fend off the teacher's questions while he works, by telling him that there were "delays" or "mistakes" in the paperwork, until the poor guy has worked there beyond his tourist status, and then they boot him out without a final paycheck. He has no legal recourse because he is in the country illegally, has worked illegally, and has merely provided the employer with cheap temporary labor.
Beware. |
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