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Harold Jones
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Cornwall
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 Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: False Information on JIC advert |
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Jubail Industrial College English Language Centre DOES NOT OFFER LECTURER POSITIONS: be warned that the advert is making false claims that lecturer positions are being offered at higher salaries and overtime deals. This is blatantly false as they stopped hiring lecturers last year.
If you don't believe me make sure you request clarification on this point before applying. You'll only be offered a teacher's contract. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Jubail Industrial College English Language Centre DOES NOT OFFER LECTURER POSITIONS: be warned that the advert is making false claims that lecturer positions are being offered at higher salaries and overtime deals.
This is blatantly false as they stopped hiring lecturers last year. If you don't believe me make sure you request clarification on this point before applying. You'll only be offered a teacher's contract. |
There is no such thing as a teacher's contract. The faculty positions at JIC are Instructor, Lecturer, Senior Lecturer and Assistant Professor, though only the first two grades are offered to new hires at the ELC, and I believe the fourth grade is never offered initially in any faculty, and also may well be reserved to Saudis.
The salaries given are for Grade 10. This is the Grade all Western Instructors and Lecturers are hired on at present for ELC. There is no difference at present in ELC in the salary between Lecturers and Instructors. If both teach 20 hours then the lecturer will receive a small additional payment for the two 'overtime' hours he is teaching in comparison to the instructors.
Most positions are for Instructors, though those with a Masters may be offered a lecturer's position. Harold Jones, the OP, himself took up a lecturer's position. Of the others that joined ELC since September two were offered lecturer positions.
With the new financial year coming into effect, there will be more positions available, I am told. How many of these will be for lecturers, and how many of those will be offered to ELC I don't know. New bye-laws may come into effect that would improve the position of lecturers and above, but there will be no decrease in the salary or conditions of instructors, which are at present those laid out in the advert . |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:06 am Post subject: op |
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If my memory serves me right Mr Harold Jones the OP, posted earlier about some dispute he was having with his then-employers at JIC. Something about not getting through his 90-day probationary period ?
Is he continuing to wage war on JIC from the safety of the dole queue in the UK ?
Last edited by scot47 on Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Harold Jones
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Cornwall
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: False information continues at JIC |
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Without engaging in a slanging match with the JIC apologist who frequently contributes to this forum, I must respond to his long report on EFL posts offered at the English Language Centre at JIC.
The information he offered regarding my circumstances at JIC is wrong and needs to be put right. I was contracted to take up a Lecturer's position at JIC and was informed on arrival that my position was being down-graded to that of Instructor ('Teacher' was my mistake though it's the same thing). The Academic Director at the time trashed my qualifications and experience and told me that EFL posts at JIC did not deserve 'Lecturer' status. Apparently, there were complaints from my 'fellow countrymen' working on the teaching staff there because I'd been offered a lecturer position after it had been earlier agreed that such posts were no longer on offer at the English Language Centre.
Other technical departments at the JIC do appoint Lecturers but not the English Language Centre. The Managing Director of the JIC himself explanined to me that Lecturer posts were not available for EFL staff. Added to the fact that I was given someone else's ID by one of the incompentent fools in administration, my introduction at the JIC was hardly encouraging. I chose to get myself fired to highlight the thuggery of the Academic Director and was one of a long line of teachers who wrote to complain about his bullying tactics.
I have it on good authority by staff still working there that the Academic Director (pre November 2005) has been 'side-lined' and that his deputy at that time is now affectively running the English Language Centre. This change can have only been for the good as the Deputy Director is a gentleman who actually appears to care about people and seems to be a thoroughly decent man.
The main point about all this is not to believe what's advertised by this particular college and double-check everything before accepting a contract which can be altered on your arrival. Once out there it is very difficult to leave so be prepared to cut and run ( as teachers frequently do) if and when things go wrong. Other threads on this site have attempted to address the issue of contracts and salaries and the difficulty of receiving accurate information from employers in Saudi Arabia. I think the response to my first posting on the subject of false information from JIC again indicates that prospective teachers must tread very carefully when dealing with the cowboys who run the place; they will lie and deceive staff when it suits them. Be warned.
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: Re: op |
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If the OP thinks JIC is a bad employer he wants to try working for some of the outfits in KSA that I have worked for !
Last edited by scot47 on Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tomton
Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| It's true there are some unscrupulous employers. Ideally it would be best to have any contract sent to you for signing before you travel. Once you're there, there is very little you can do about the contract terms and conditions. |
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Harold Jones
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Cornwall
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:18 pm Post subject: Personal insults to distract from the main issue |
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I'm not entirely surprised that another regular visitor to Dave's ESL has chosen to insult me personally by suggesting that I'm languishing on the dole in the UK following my short stint at Jubail Industrial College.
By doing so he inflicts upon himself a great dis-service in an attempt to trivialise an issue and distract attention away from the original point of my initial posting. Sensible people out there must judge for themselves who tells the truth on this site and ascertain why this forum exists. Is it so that EFL teachers can slag each other off or is it so that information about jobs in EFL can be shared?
My alert to the advert by Jubail Industrial College was not posted in an attempt by me to wage war against that particular institution. It quite simply warns unsuspecting potential applicants for posts with JIC to be alert to the fact that things on the ground may not be quite as rosy as advertised. From other postings it is apparent that some teachers don't realise just how bad things can be at the JIC.
Many untruths about the place have appeared on this portal. If you're thinking of going there to teach EFL just proceed with caution and don't take all the blurb offered in the adverts and college web-site on face value. In so saying, of course, don't take my words for granted either. At least I'm offering another side to the JIC coin. I was treated very badly there and I know several others who received a mauling at the place.
I've got no interest in playing games with personal insults on these pages as the opportunity to share valuable job information with fellow EFL teachers is too important for that.
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Is it really important to you that you have am impressive title ? Are you rally more concerned about the title than the terms and conditions ? |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The information he offered regarding my circumstances at JIC is wrong and needs to be put right. I was contracted to take up a Lecturer's position at JIC and was informed on arrival that my position was being down-graded to that of Instructor ('Teacher' was my mistake though it's the same thing). The Academic Director at the time trashed my qualifications and experience and told me that EFL posts at JIC did not deserve 'Lecturer' status. Apparently, there were complaints from my 'fellow countrymen' working on the teaching staff there because I'd been offered a lecturer position after it had been earlier agreed that such posts were no longer on offer at the English Language Centre. |
To the best of my knowledge Mr. H. Jones was never 'downgraded to the position of instructor'. He sgned a contract as lecturer and was listed as lecturer in the faculty directory (which listing was the cause of the envious comments from another member of staff which Mr. Jones is referring to). There was a discussion over the other colleague's complaint between Mr. H. Jones and the ELC Director, and this conversation appeared to last a very long time, as many of Mr. Jones's conversations with staff on professional matters have done. As I wasn't present in the conversation, I can't make any informed comment, but there was no question of Mr. Jones's position being changed unilaterally. Indeed if he didn't sign a written request to be downgraded I fail to see how it could have happened; it would certainly have been a bureaucratic nightmare.
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| I have it on good authority by staff still working there that the Academic Director (pre November 2005) has been 'side-lined' and that his deputy at that time is now affectively running the English Language Centre. |
Mr H. Jones's 'good authority' is as vague as his own memory. The ELC Director has been the Acting College Deputy Director for Educational Affairs and Training, due to the holder of that post being seconded temporarily to be in charge of Jubail Technical Institute. That is to say, far from being 'side-lined', it means he is temporarily doing the job of his immediate superior as well as his own. Obviously in those circumstances more of the day-to-day running depends on his assistants.
With regard to the vacancies for faculty staff at ELC, since Mr. H. Jones arrived two members of staff have been appointed to lecturer position. Both were PhDs, and the majority of positions offered have been for instructors; some of those offered instructor positions had masters degrees and would have been eligible for a lecturer position had one been offered. However, there is no official policy that I know of, which says ELC staff will not be offered lecturer positions. Were I or Dr. Al-Qahtani aware of omne we would have changed the wording in the advert. The salary scale for lecturers and instructors from Western countries is that stated in the advert. The maximum is available to both instructors and lecturers. When the new college bye-laws come fully into effect the salaries for instructors will remain the same, and it is possible those for lecturers will increase.
Apart from possible prestige, the difference between the two positions is at present, minimal. If you cover for absent or (non-existent) colleagues in your office hours you receive SR60 per hour as instructor and SR75 as lecturer. As the lecturers official teaching hours are 18 per week, compared to 20 for the instructor, this also means that lecturers will get and extra SR150 when they teach the standard 20 hours a week.
One useful side-effect of Mr. H. Jones's post is that it does allow me to mention one important aspect of being contracted by JIC that has caused embarrassment in the past. Remember that when you sign agreeing to what you get in the offer, that is what you are going to get. Your salary is based on qualifications and experience. There is a sharp difference between the bottom of the salary scale and the maximum for new hires. Considerable care is put into working out the correct number of years of experience for each candidate, but Personnel is only human and there can be misunderstandings. If you feel they have calculated your number of years wrongly, do not sign and hope to fix it later.Once you have signed you will be held to it, so query before you sign. And remember, if you have been verbally quoted a ball-park figure to give you some idea, that is just that, an informal guesstimate and in no way a promise. The only promise as to salary is the figure in the formal job offer you get from Personnel in the Royal Commission. |
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