Job Discussion Forums

Fatcat · Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 92 Location: Athens, Georgia

Okay, I taught this girl last week one-on-one who's from Mexico. She's a complete beginner so I was going over the alphabet with her. The weird thing is that she pronounced 's' like 'x' (eks). I thought it was odd because in Spanish 's' is pronounced 'ese', right?? Are there regions where they pronounce it differently? And when I pointed it out to her and showed her the difference between the two letters, she totally didn't get it. What could I have done to show her the difference besides pronouncing them over and over and over to no avail?

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

That's odd. Might be her own quirk, because the Spanish 's' sounds pretty much like ours in English, except when ours sounds like a 'z' or maybe a j'. Churches, boys, says, pleasure or like an 'sh' sure, insurance, assure.

Many indigenous names in Mexico that start with an X have an 'sh' sound.

Xola Avenue = Shola Avenue
Xochimilco = Shochimilco

But that doesn't explain it.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:42 pm Post subject:

I have no idea where she gets it from...nor any idea where mixtecamike, our esteemed linguist, has gone, so I'll have my best go here:

For whatever reason, she isn't hearing the sound difference. Repeating it to her will be like teaching a pig to sing. (It wastes your time, and annoys the pig.) The reason that non natives don't hear a sound distinction is usually due to lack of familiarity. In this case, with a confusion that isn't typical to her language group, I have no idea why she isn't hearing it. It doesn't really matter. If you look at how the sound is produced, you can help her learn to make it. Once she can say it, she'll start to hear it.

The "x" sound starts with a vowel, followed by a "k" sound, which is pronounced by stopping, then releasing sound from between the soft palate and the very back of the tongue. In short, it's a sound that goes with a movement in the back cuadrant of the mouth and tongue.

The "s" sound is a hissing of air through the articulators (tip of the tongue and hard palate, in this case) at the front of the mouth. There should be no movement at the back of the mouth at all.

Explaining/demonstrating this difference may be the first step in helping her to feel the difference between the two sounds.

Another cool trick is to ask her to sustain the sound. Sustaining an "s," while it makes you sound like a snake, is easy to do. Sustaining the "x" is impossible, as it's really several sounds in one. Knowing that the correct "s" is the sound a snake makes helps me with children.

And good luck,
Justin

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject:

PS- How old is this person? From "girl," we have no idea. It may have to do with developing sounds in here own language, if she's little.

PPS- What you're running into is similar to a more common error, of putting an "e" before "s" sounds. (Esnake) It's easily solved by making students do the sustained "s" sound before problem words. (ssssnake)

J

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Good ideas there from our man in Ecuador. I'll add a bit more by suggesting you try not to focus so much on an 's' word alone, but to put it after another word - one that won't easily allow for an 'x' sound in transition. A word that ends in a vowel might be best.

Every Saturday
A la spaghetti
Tomato soup

I think if you focus on the flow of the vowel into the 's', you might have some success. Using a consonant - 's' doesn't work because you will still have a vowel sound in between. Try it.

MELEE · Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:12 pm Post subject:

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject:

Well, Darn. Busy or not, he was a good source of lingusitic info...

Justin

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject:

Well, Darn. Busy or not, he was a good source of lingusitic info...

Justin

Fatcat · Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 92 Location: Athens, Georgia

Thanks for all of y'all's suggestions. Unfortunately, the girl/woman (who is 24 BTW) didn't show up for class last night; which I suspect is part of her problems.
We'll see if she can make it next week...
fatcat

lozwich · Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 1536

What is her Spanish pronunciation like? I remember having a student once whose English pronunciation was pretty bad, and then I heard him speaking Spanish with a pronounced lisp and a weird kind of slurring that I didn't feel remotely qualified to help him correct.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

I had a Mexican student once that had some kind of speech impediment with 'L' and 'R' - Spanish or English. Much like the Koreans seem to have. I didn't approach it since like you, I am not qualified for that.

rlloydevans · Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 26 Location: Guayaquil, Ecuador

My wife has run across this a few times, teaching ESL in Southern Arizona and California. There are a number of learners from North Central Mexico - very rural, mountainous areas - whose common language is still very influenced by their traditions of N'ahuatal - the ancient language of the Aztecs.

One idiosyncracy of N'ahuatal is there is no "S" sound, but has strong "X" and "Z" elements.

Hope this helps!