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twentynine
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:04 pm Post subject: More questions about the degree issue (newbie) |
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Hello All,
I have no degree, but do have heaps of editing experience, and am in the process of getting my TEFL. I have two years experience teaching.
I was offered a job in Taiwan by a big company there... a worry?
Also, how does teaching in Taiwan compare with, say Cambodia or South Korea? I'm a girl, so the local women aspect isn't a selling point.
Could anyone give me a rundown of the options in Asia for a smart girl without documentation of that fact?
And my last question is - are Hess School and Dragon Recruiters one and the same? I see their names tied together all over the web. Does anyone have anything to say about Dragon?
Has anyone had particularly good experiences at any schools? I don't mind the more rural life, nor do I have anything against the city, so I'm pretty flexible as to where I go. |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:33 am Post subject: |
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Just because a company advertises all over the internet it doesn't entail that they are big. Think high staff turn over. That said, HESS is a big company. Great if you don't mind a rural location. They have many. Though be forewarned. Rural Taiwan is a lot more isolated than back home. Great if you want to learn the language though a lot of rural Taiwanese tend to speak Taiwanese and not Mandarin.
Oh yeah, no degree = no work permit. So to work illegally you will need to enrol in language classes. A little difficult to do outside of a city. Not sure on HESS' stance on the issue. Doesn't hurt to ask though. A bigger company would be better informed of these things. |
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dvasas
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 138
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: Re: More questions about the degree issue (newbie) |
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| twentynine wrote: |
Hello All,
I have no degree, but do have heaps of editing experience, and am in the process of getting my TEFL. I have two years experience teaching.
I was offered a job in Taiwan by a big company there... a worry?
Also, how does teaching in Taiwan compare with, say Cambodia or South Korea? I'm a girl, so the local women aspect isn't a selling point.
Could anyone give me a rundown of the options in Asia for a smart girl without documentation of that fact?
And my last question is - are Hess School and Dragon Recruiters one and the same? I see their names tied together all over the web. Does anyone have anything to say about Dragon?
Has anyone had particularly good experiences at any schools? I don't mind the more rural life, nor do I have anything against the city, so I'm pretty flexible as to where I go. |
Dragon could be recruiters from Hess, I am not sure if they are the same company but it could be possible, I have heard that Hess has many recruiters working for them overseas. Some recruiters would just make you a degree so you could get a work permit..... ask them these questions, usually these recruiters don't even look at you resume and just send out an autoresponder offering a job to whoever emails them.....
good luck!! |
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Miyazaki
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Location: My Father's Yacht
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Ki wrote: |
| Oh yeah, no degree = no work permit. |
You are wrong.
Many TEFL'ers on Taiwan teach legally and have a work permit and ARC with only a college diploma. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Miyazaki wrote: |
| Many TEFL'ers on Taiwan teach legally and have a work permit and ARC with only a college diploma. |
Somewhat of an overstatement for sure!
Let me ask you this Miyazaki, assuming that everything else was equal except for the fact that Teacher A had a degree, and Teacher B had a diploma plus TESOL, who do you think would get the job? I guess this is a rhetorical question as the answer is obvious to all!
While you are at it I would be interested in your comments on the experience of the poor guy who started this thread:
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=35805 |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| I stand corrected. There are many people living in Taiwan with an ARC and without a degree. They are, however, married to Taiwanese nationals. I also know a couple of people with fake degrees but that really isn't the same, is it? |
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SanChong
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:20 am Post subject: |
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1) Yes, there are quite a few people here with a DIPLOMA + TEFL/TESOL/CELTA certification. However, it is harder to get an ARC with that combination and the government doesn't release the schools which they accept (Frustrating for many people). They are also making it stricter for people with this combination. In Korea, from what I understand, this isn't allowed at all.
I think the discussion here may have to do with some people's perception of Degree vs. Diploma. There are larger differences in some countries. I'll disagree with Clark (in a rare occasion!) on what schools would prefer. I don't think they really care if a person has a Degree or a Diploma/TEFL as long as they are sure they can LEGALLY get an ARC.
2) Fake degrees are a VERY big problem in Taiwan. It is one of the main reasons why those of us with real degrees have so many more restrictions in Taiwan. We can debate the merits of these requirements all we want. I don't really have a problem with the rule. The rules are the same as in our home countries, so what's the problem?
I think people on fake degrees are living on borrowed time and we can expect a Koreaesque crackdown soon.... |
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Miyazaki
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Location: My Father's Yacht
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| Ki wrote: |
| I stand corrected. There are many people living in Taiwan with an ARC and without a degree. They are, however, married to Taiwanese nationals. I also know a couple of people with fake degrees but that really isn't the same, is it? |
Ki:
You're still not getting it...
As long as an applicant is a passport holder from an English-speaking country (this does not mean that one even needs to be a native English-speaker!), s/he only needs to have a college diploma to obtain an ARC and work permit to teach EFL on Taiwan (as long as the particular school where the diploma was earned is recognized by the MoE).
Furthermore, you don't necessarily have to hold a TEFL certification. |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Yes Miyazaki,
I got it. I was just saying that there were other ways of getting an ARC. Please show me where the OP said that she had a diploma. If this is not stated I can only assume that she doesn't have one. But thank you for emphasizing your quotes and changing the colours. It does make it look pretty.
And no, I am not denying that a diploma + TEFL can get you an ARC. I didn't realise that I stated it anywhere. I guess I should have been a little more pedantic. How about this:
[(No degree) or ( no diploma + TEFL) or (no Taiwanese wife)] = no ARC.
| Quote: |
| s/he only needs to have a college diploma |
Does she have one then? Or are you just being pedantic for the sake of being pedantic and therefore really don't have any place in the OP's query at all? |
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Miyazaki
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Location: My Father's Yacht
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Gald to see you got it all figured out now.
You're welcome. |
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SanChong
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Miyazaki, that is unfortunately NOT correct information.
You most certainly cannot legally work in Taiwan with only a College Diploma. You need to combine it with a TEFL/TESL/CELTA certification. That is 100% true, without a doubt. Just so no one is confused and come to Taiwan only to find they cannot legally work: You absolutely 100% NEED a TEFL, etc. certification if you only have a College Diploma.
Also, as several people have noted, not all Diplomas are recognized in Taiwan (which is VERY frustrating). So, even if you have both, you should find out if the Taiwanese gov. recognizes your College.
Miyazaki: if you know someone who got an ARC without the above then it is either an exception/mistake, or you don't know the whole story. It is CERTAINLY NOT the norm.
I'm sorry if my caps seem obnoxious, (it's not on purpose!) but I just want to make this clear to people before they come here. I've seen people come to Taiwan without the proper qualifications based on incorrect information. They end up leaving bitter and a lot poorer... I hate seeing that happen.
I'd look up the exact rules on this and quote them, but I'm pretty sure Clark has them on his fingertips... I'll let him pick this one up from here 
If not, I'll do it later. |
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Miyazaki
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Location: My Father's Yacht
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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You most certainly cannot legally work in Taiwan with only a College Diploma. You need to combine it with a TEFL/TESL/CELTA certification. That is 100% true, without a doubt
You are wrong!
Please desist.
You are acting irresponsibly by providing prospective teachers with completely wrong information.
STOP IT!
YES - You can work legally in Taiwan without a degree. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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Are people here really disagreeing about the differences between the terms "college degree" and "college diploma"? If so, can somebody please clarify the distinction for them?  |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| Are people here really disagreeing about the differences between the terms "college degree" and "college diploma"? If so, can somebody please clarify the distinction for them? |
Henry this is exactly the reason that I don't recommend people attempt to secure work in Taiwan via this method.
First off there are so many interpretations of what college can be. Is it a vocational college? Is it a bridging college between school and university? Or is it a private high school that chooses a name with word 'college' in it? The fact is that the term 'college' means different things to different people from different countries. So what exactly is a college in the eyes of the government of Taiwan? This is one question that people such as Miyazaki need to answer if they really want their information to be clear, valuable, and not misleading.
The fact is that there is absolutely no way to know for sure whether your college qualifications would be accepted by the government here short of making an application for a work permit. You can contact the CLA upfront and ask but there is no guarantee at that stage that the answer they will give you is correct. To make the application you need to first secure work, do a medical, and submit the paperwork. Most people come to Taiwan first and do this here. So you could go through all of this to find that the government here does not accept that the institution you studied at is a college. I have personally seen a list that the government uses to determine whether or not a particular university is accredited, but I have seen no such list for colleges!
So Miyazaki if you are going to continue this argument on the grounds that you believe that everyone else here is being misleading then I believe that you should back up your assertions by explaining to everyone how an applicant can know prior to making an application whether or not they are wasting their time.
Then you need to repeat the above for the TESOL certification as it is in exactly the same boat of ambiguity.
Then again you could always just assume that a degree or higher is the best way to go and then you would know that you are qualified for the job (with the exception of fake degrees and those online degree mill degrees of course)!
| Miyazaki wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You most certainly cannot legally work in Taiwan with only a College Diploma. You need to combine it with a TEFL/TESL/CELTA certification. That is 100% true, without a doubt |
You are wrong!
Please desist.
You are acting irresponsibly by providing prospective teachers with completely wrong information.
STOP IT! |
No, you are wrong Miyazaki, no matter what size text you use nor what color you write it in.
The quote that you make is correct - you CANNOT work legally in Taiwan with only a college diploma. You DO need to combine it with a TESOL certification.
Please stop confusing the readers here. |
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Miyazaki
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Location: My Father's Yacht
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
| ..you CANNOT work legally in Taiwan with only a college diploma. You DO need to combine it with a TESOL certification. |
Yes one can work legally in Taiwan with only a diploma.
You do not need to combine it with a diploma in TEFL.
Please DO NOT provide inaccurate information about teaching EFL on Taiwan.
You are behaving irresponsibly.
I will personally report you to Dave if you continue to tell people we cannot teach on Taiwan without a degree.
Please stop misinfroming the readers on this forum.
Shame on you.
Last edited by Miyazaki on Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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