Job Discussion Forums

[Everest]

OK, Newbies - listen up. It isn't often this old dog hands out advice (I'm usually seeking it) but I'll make an exception on this one.

Any Chinaman who starts talking to you about "a probationary period" is yanking your weasel - and there's no short of weasel-yankers in these here parts.

Typically, you'll be told something like "5000RMB rising to 5500RMB after a one-month 'probationary period' thereafter rising to 7000RMB after three months", or some variation thereof. Another classic is "an end-of-contract bonus of sixty million bucks if we have been happy with your performance". Yeah, right. Try getting a legal definition of THAT for purposes of suing. Anything else? Want to pick my pockets too, Mister Chen?

In teaching ESL, we all know that there's no such thing as a probationary period. If you're crap, they'll fire you immediately or find some pretext to get rid of you. If you're good, they'll keep you. How does a "probationary period" apply here? This ain't the FBI or MI-6 we signed up for. There's no 'national security' issues here. You're doing the same work as your other foreign colleagues and you should get paid the same.

NEVER sign on a contract on the basis of a "probationary period". It's just a way for them to work you harder and steal money from you. If you're promised a completion bonus, make sure that in no way their "opinion of your performance" is listed as a factor in paying you that bonus. The only criterion should be that you COMPLETED YOUR CONTRACT.

Happy days, everyone.

E.

[DavidPBSmith]

Contract Definitions for fantasizing newbies outside China:

"a probationary period": Chinese school owner has to see that you ain't black or not white when you arrive. If you white, you passed probation. Not white, you failed probation. White, but don't speaka denglish too good, probation passed. Black or non white, educated to PHD level at Harvard who speaks like an Oxford Don, failed probation.

"an end-of-contract bonus": Chinese school owner deducts all made-up expenses teacher incurred during contract period such as heat, late fines for being tardy to class, penalty for being drunk in class, etc. Final payout to teacher at end of contract: Nada. Teacher actually owes school money.

"Return Flight paid": Yep, teacher pays.

"Medical Insurance": Dirty, cheapest hospital care provided only if you're about to die for certain. Until then, crappy herbal remedies supplied by school.

"Western Style Accommodation": Think Bronx or Brixton tenement circa 1925. Toilet is hole in floor.

"Free Chinese lessons": School janitor laughs at you as he tries to teach you to say Ni Hao everyday.

[sigmoid]

[tofuman]

One FT, anticipating the rip off, started requesting his airline ticket repayment before he handed in the final test scores and grades for over 200 students. Once the waffling started, he told the FAO that he would not turn in the grades before he got his airline ticket cost repaid.

He made sure that the FAO understood by clearly articulating: "You will never see the grades for these students if I don't get my money."

He was paid shortly thereafter.

[Roger]

[latefordinner]

[Louras]

Fiat? I take it then that F..off translates into Ferarri?

[Babala]

I see no problem with a probation period. A school should have the right to try out a teacher to see if they are okay. I think the terms of the probation should be written into the contract so there are no grey areas. Companies in western countries have probation periods, why do people think it's so wrong that a Chinese company does the same

[clark.w.griswald]

I think that probationary periods are one of those facts of working in China that you can either choose to look at as being a case of 'is the glass half full or half empty'.

I believe that the positive way to look at these clauses is that the starting wage (lets say RMB5,000) is the wage! If you are happy with that based upon the other conditions of the job then you take the job.

After three months or whatever, provided you are doing a bang up job and once you have some experience under your belt then you are entitled to a pay raise (lets say an extra RMB500).

After another period of time this may jump up again.

Of course the other way to look at this is that everyone who has been working there for a year or more is getting RMB6,500 so why shouldn't you! It is a fair question, and a very valid opinion, but personally I believe that once you start concentrating on what others are getting then you are surely going to be disappointed. There is always going to be another teacher who earns more. Another school that pays more. Another boss who earns more. Where does it stop?

Surely the best advice is to consider what you need and if you are happy with the starting pay then accept it and look forward to and work toward that future pay raise.

[sigmoid]

NO, N - O. There is no gray/grey area. Either they hire me or they don't. It's that simple.

If they want to hire me, then they make an offer that is acceptable to me. If the offer is not acceptable to me, then I don't have the time to respond to them. End of story.

Probation is for criminals not English teachers and especially not English teachers in China.

[nolefan]

I'm with Babala and Clark on this one. Whether you know it or not, most people working for a public school have that 3 month probation period built into the contract even if it is not in writing. It is customary to do so in China. More often than not, there is no difference in the salary.

As far as the institutions that insist on having teachers go through a probation period, I can only guess that some of them have had run ins with some shady characters in the past and this has forced them to be more careful.

BTW, there are plenty of so called English Teachers running around the middle kingdom with criminal records... I've met a bunch of them and had the mispleasure of being involved in their recruiting at some point in the past year. they are one of the main reasons i got out of it.

Also, keep in mind that during the probation period, either party can decide not to pursue the contract without penalty. that is not such a bad thing.

[morrisj11]

[tofuman]

The "probationary period" may just be a time to see if having a white face around will boost enrollment in the school employing you. If it doesn't add enough students to meet your salary and enrich your employers, you fail probation. Of course your employer did not inform you that you must generate enough business to make your salary. "Failing probation" may not have a thing to do with your competence as a teacher.

If you do not bring in enough new business, losing your airfare and the place you lived before coming to China is your problem, not theirs. Inconveniencing you or causing you to lose money is of no concern to your employers.

if you allow yourself to become vulnerable to loss over issues like this, chances are good that you will lose. Like "free Chinese lessons," "internet connection" and various other hoaxes perpetrated by greedy, indifferent employers, "probationary period" may be just another weapon in their arsenal of injurious frauds.

[clark.w.griswald]

I agree with Morris that probationary periods are fairly widely used in western countries also. In these cases they are often used as a way to avoid often stringent unfair dismissal legislation.

Surely the answer for those who oppose the concept of probationary periods is to avoid any jobs that request this. This may mean that you need to turn down otherwise good jobs, and also cut down on your choices, but if you feel that strongly about the issue then surely you do not have any other alternative.

Just don't accept the position because the money or the hours are good and then start complaining about the probationary period after the fact!

[Everest]

Maybe I wasn't clear on one point.

I don't object to the probationary period per-se. Like a previous poster I too worked in the UK IT sector and understand well the pitfalls of hiring Charles Manson/Ronnie Biggs and being unable to dump him when the cops come knocking to arrest him for that latest car-theft/mugging.

That's not my point at all, though.

What I'm trying to get across is that the probationary period should not place the teacher on an artificially lowered salary scale for the duration of that period. I've lived in China for long enough to know that this is just a way for most schools to cheat teachers. I know of one particular instance where the balance of the teacher's ACTUAL salary (ie: full salary as sanctioned by the board of directors) was going into the Chinese manager's pocket until the (ahem!) 'probationary period' had 'expired'.

That's stealing. Sorry.