Job Discussion Forums

[Super Frank]

When I began my TESOL course I wanted to come to LA, possibly Argentina but was open as to where really. Whilst on my course one of the other students put the idea in my head of China, better job prospects more money etc. I have come to teaching after carving out a career in London in housing management, then realising that I don't want to buy a flat in Wembley and remain there for the rest of my life. Now reading these forums (have never seen Daves on a search engine BTW, course tutors gave us the add) I feel a bit let down. I do not have a degree so to make a living out of ESL is looking very difficult at the moment. It sounds sad but I enjoy working hard, never late, never sick unless really really ill etc and genuinely looking for real commitment. No offence but the backpacking life is not for me. I am currently in negs with a job in LA and joining a chain in China. My heart says risk it come to LA but my sense says join a chain, work your way up and maybe I can develop a career. So, I am stuck between the two. Is it possible to make a decent living in Latin America, for perhaps the next 10 years or so? Or is the chain the best way to go? Are there many teachers, DOS that have fallen in love with China and have stayed for the long term? I look forward to your comments

[cartago]

I've taught in Costa Rica and am now about to go to China to work with a chain school. I don't have a degree either. It was hard getting by in Costa Rica but I think if I had stuck it out longer and made more contacts I could have gotten enough teaching hours to get by. Many people in San Jose work for more than one school to get enough hours.

The reason I decided to go to China was really just to try something different. I had been to Guatemala and Costa Rica before but I haven't been to Asia yet. You could certainly try what I did and rent an apartment somewhere in LA and if you find you don't like it or can't make it work for you then try China. I guess it is a lot of money to invest in a plane ticket and initial expenses which you probably won't be able to get back, but at least the experience might help you landing a better job in China.

Since I haven't been to China yet I'm not really sure what it's like but it sounds to me like LA would be a nicer place to start out teaching since my experience in Costa Rica was more casual and not as demanding. Also most people I knew there worked with adults. Also if it's your first experience living abroad, I think Latin American culture is more similar to British and North American culture than Chinese is, so that should make the adjustment easier. And Spanish has a lot in common with English making the language easier to teach.

So, I think China would offer a better salary and the chain school normally provide living arrangements and more structure. But in LA it may be easier to adjust in other ways.

[Spiderman Too]

I have no first-hand experience with Latin American but my impression is that it would be suitable only for people for whom money is absolutely, 100% not an issue; as in you can afford to pay your own airfare to get there, pay your own airfare to return, probably pay for your own visa and �work permit� costs and buy your own medical insurance.

Also, you are prepared to accept that your salary will cover your day-to-day living expenses only and you are able to self-fund traveling / holidays with LA.

Finally, I don�t think LA is a career move but more of a temporary exotic experience.

But, for those who can accept the above, I am sure LA would be a wonderful experience equal to, if not better than, China.

Career-wise, I think China offers much better prospects.

[vancanman]

I have been from Mexico City to Santiago and back, and have almost 3 years in China. I also lack a degree, but I would not let that stop you for going to either region. I have always found that experience, especially in Business English, is the main point.

Both places have +s and -s. China has a lot of women, not too concerned about how rich you are and age difference, and you may feel like Brad Pitt here. You can make a career in either place, especially if you get some of your own clients.

The language issue is less complicated and the culture more similar in LA. I think the lang school is a good way to start in both places.

I would say China would be more stable in terms of the economy and the future thereof. Suggest hitting Shanghai or Guangzhou to start.

LA has more beautiful women (think: Colombia, Costa Rica et al) and better weather. Mexico City best $ and most jobs, and really not a bad place to live.

[DavidPBSmith]

Go to Latin America or South America....China is a dead end. After you teach here for a while, any teaching skills you may have got from that weekend TESOL course will be forgotten. When you want to transition out of China to teach elsewhere, no school will want you because you've been tainted by the reputation foreign teachers who teach in China get as being total losers. It's why they went to China in the first place.

[Super Mario]

[DavidPBSmith]

[Super Mario]

Agreed.
My point was that China isn't a dead end and that only the minority are losers. I'll stand by that, based on five years there. Probably only 10% of the FTs I worked with fitted your description.

[Super Frank]

Cheers team, appreciate the advice. I have received a few pms regarding this and it seems that both countries/continents offer it all from the dosser to the most serious so at least I know that opportunities are out there. Haven't been offered a job yet anyway so I still have time to think it all over.

[DavidPBSmith]

[rexgardn]

Thank you initial initial Smith for pulling apart and then explaining why these drunkologues, boasts about childish pranks, the manic outbursts, and untreated adjustment problems make reading this forum as fascinating as watching trains collide before one's eyes.

After my early alarm and disgust at the racism and the small mindedness the posters visit even to their own Anglophiliac kind, I came to view their revelations as an early warning system and guide to what to avoid and how to identify the malcontents and yes, losers, that crowd these pages.

The pedantry and the exhibitions of self importance of the compulsive annotators alone is worth the visit. Entire revolutions have been mounted to overthrow these people and their privilege yet they survive to teach a new generation. Still history shows that China survived the English of an earlier time even though they had to turn to Communism to do it.


R.

[Super Mario]

See below for the real message.

[Super Mario]

[quote]10% is too many. To care about our profession, we should do all we can to weed the bad out. Too many Good Foreign Teachers in China don't think it is their business to do so. Back home they would, though

[jg]

Don't know about Central America, but the Andean countries of South America are much more relaxed and less neurotic than China. Lots of teachers in China have a relaxed lifestyle with free time and money to burn, but the Chinese generally don't, and that creates a dour vibe, which can kind of be a killjoy if you want to take part in the larger community. Of course, you could wind up in dullsville SA, but at least the vibe will still feel relaxed.

In SA, the money isn't as good, the standards will be higher at any reputable school, the infastructure isn't as solid as China's, and at certain times political/economic issues can be problematic. You may not encounter a single strike, riot, or protest in several years, or you may miss classes because the school's closed due to rioting - happened to me in Ecuador. I won't even start on Bolivia. Chile and Argentina are more expenisve and the money isn't that much better, unless you want to be hustling for privates that might not be reliable. 3000 RMB a month in China is low, but salaries in this range usually include housing and you can still live well on that money.

You should be looking more at where in China or LA you want to teach, especially if you are planning to spend 10 years there. Even the difference between too similar countries like Peru and Ecuador is striking (for me at least) and I think China is more uniform, at least regionally. Forget about chains in China, good and dedicated teachers can make a better place for themself in other environs.

Living in SA longterm you are much more likely to make genuine friends, defining "friendship" in the way its meant in the west, and not the "stragtegic" friendships of China.

If you want more details, especially about Ecuador, Peru, send me a pm.

[Super Frank]

Cheers jg,

I was in discussions with a post in Ecuador but communication faltered and in the meantime I accepted a post in China. I can only imagine that the two places are opposite poles but am looking forward immensely to the challenge...