Job Discussion Forums

[Jizzo T. Clown]

When talking with students about cities in their home countries, should we pronounce them like they do? For example, if I'm talking to a Chinese student about Shanghai, should I say "Shahng-hai," or like most native English speakers say it- "Shang-hai"?

The same goes for Japanese students: "O--saka" or "oSAka"?

It seems that if we're teaching them English, we should pronounce their cities as most English speakers do, after all, when speaking with a Japanese student, I wouldn't say "Nyu-yoku" for "New York."

[ls650]

Generally in Mexico, place names can only be pronounced the local way. However, a good exception is the name of the country itself: Mexico is pronounced Me-hi-ko in Spanish.

No student has ever expressed displeasure in my pronouncing the name of the country with an 'eks' when speaking in English: they seem to understand that this is the way foreigners do it, and when speaking English they do it too.

[dmb]

When will Americans pronounce my home country, Scotland, correctly? The 3rd letter is an O not an A

[Justin Trullinger]

In English, I would always go with the common English name, or pronuciation. Although I've heard some people insist on the "correct," meaning native, name for cities and countries. In Spanish, should I insist on "New York," or let the more common "Nueva York" go?

Justin

[valley_girl]

I always cringe when I hear Americans trying to pronounce Newfoundland. It sounds like NewFOUNDland when they say it, but we Canadians generally pronounce it NewfoundLAND (with "found" sounding more like "fin").

[valley_girl]

[Justin Trullinger]

Or at least DON't do as the Napolitanos do. Learned all my Italian there, nobody else in Italy had any idea what I was saying....

Justin

[Jizzo T. Clown]

I wonder if the same goes for students' names? For example, should "Takumi" be pronounced like "taKUmi" or, the Japanese way, "TAkumi"?

It just irks me sometimes because my fellow teachers often try to pronounce proper names in the students' pronunciation, but often fall short (ex: "Hangzhou" might sounds like "Hanjou," with the "an" sounding like the "an" in "Hand.")...or like "Risa," in which case they assume that all "R"'s in Japan are pronounced like "L"'s, hence, "Lisa." Can't fault them too much, since they've never lived abroad.

I propose that consistency is key in all matters--either full-on English pronunciation (my preference, actually), or the *correct* pronunciation in the students' languages.

[tedkarma]

What's the goal? Why are they studying English?

Is it to communicate effectively with native or international English speakers? If so, I would suggest teaching them a relatively international English pronunciation.

In Thailand for example - many women have the nickname of "Apple" which Thais would pronounce as "Ap pun" But . . . if they are working at a hotel - wearing a nametag that says "Apple" - well, they'd better get used to being called "Ap puhl" - no?

Some literature suggests that if you don't say it the way you will hear it - you are much less likely to understand it - when you do hear it.

So - I would vote "NO" on teaching them localized English pronunciations. They need to learn to speak it as they will hear it - as pronounced by the population they are studying to hear it from - not as pronounced by people who speak their native language.

[gaijinalways]

I would suggest the way native speakers from your country (and/or rea) will pronounce it. As to students' names, this is a trickier area. Making them aware of both pronunciations is useful as students like to hear their name pronounced correctly as well as be aware of how English speakers might very well pronounce their names.

[Cdaniels]

Nobody's yet brought up the Olympics and how "Turin" became "Torino" ?
It's a complicated issue that depends where you are. Some students might think the English pronunciation is just silly-sounding, while for others it might be a point of offence (damn imperialists mispronouncing our beloved hometown! ) In Mexico, an 'x' often denotes a native name rather than a "Spanish" name. I've even seen the 'x' in 'Mexico' mentioned as a point of mestizo pride! I would think there would be diffferent reactions from different students almost everywhere.

BTW valley_girl, when Newfie's start spelling the name like it sounds, Americans will start pronouncing correctly! What genius decided to put an "ound" in there, anyways!

[Will.]

Quite often I am forced to observe that mispronouncing someone's or some country's name may have more to do with political obeisance than actual ability to pronounce correctly

Take the example of France, (or Paris or Lyon).
French speakers use 'on' for the middle vowel a
GB ............ we use 'at' or 'are' vowel sounds even though we are familiar, or not, with the native pronunciation we are all (NS) fairly closeto each other. But look at the pronunciation of the names of Iraq or Iran, both have a short vowel in all versions except in the NA form where it has been produced/presented as an 'eye' sounding initial vowel and the second vowel in both cases has been elongated and the whole produces a sound painful to mine own ear and pedantic sensibilities.
The first example of France I find acceptable the second I do not.
Any comments?
How do we all feel about foreigners who can't correctly pronounce the name of our country when they drop in for a visit? Should we point out the error of their ways to them or keep laughing in our warm beer?

[Jizzo T. Clown]

Will--

Could be the same with Moscow--

Mos-coe or Mos-cow (moo)??

Presumably both are correct, but the former sounds more educated (or *international*) to me.

Yeah, one thing that really bugs me is when kids from China say "I like American." Even after countless corrections, they still get it wrong. But I guess it's ok if I "mispronounce" cities in their country because we are SPEAKING ENGLISH and we are IN AMERICA.

When I go to China to learn Chinese, I won't expect my Chinese teachers to pronounce American cities like we do in America. That would do a disservice to my language learning.

[valley_girl]