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boxcarwilly
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 85
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 Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: Electronic Translators - A Good Thing? |
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| I teach mostly Business English courses but I also have an Advanced ESL class in my schedule. When I first came to China, I expected to find students with English grammar abilities greater than mine and in need of oral and written skills. I am discovering that their grammar skills are quite lacking also. Do you think the rampant use of electronic translators helps or hurts the students, in general? My sense lately is that these machines are like an addiction for the students and that the English is staying in the machines instead of in their heads. Anyone prohibit these machines in class? Anyone mandate paper dictionaries only? Any good solutions? |
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Babala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: |
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I never let my students use their translators in class for a few reasons.
1) When they are using them, they cease to listen to anything you are saying.
2) Have you seen some of the translations those things give? Those things are filled with mistakes. |
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Super Mario
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 1022
Location: Australia, previously China
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Many of these machines double as games consoles. The boys at the back of your room working intently on these devices are testament to that. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Interesting point � bit like has the calculator killed pencil and paper (mental) arithmetic � PPA.
I found an article refuting this at - http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ar9/abolpub.htm
The author wrote that those advocating the abolishment of calculators from the classroom often argued in the following manner -
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| if American and British students do badly, then the reason must be their failure to learn PPA properly4. And what is more likely to have caused this failure than the increasing use of calculators over the past quarter century? |
But he suggested they are wrong -
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| There may seem to be no reason, in principle, why mixing PPA and calculators in an arithmetic curriculum should lead to poorer overall PPA performance and arithmetic understanding. It is, after all, agreed by almost everyone that the incessant drill-and-practice in arithmetic, which for many years was the hallmark of elementary school mathematics almost everywhere and still is in many places, does not instill much understanding of arithmetic, however much mechanical proficiency may be its result. Indeed, there is some evidence [Hiebert, 1986] that too much arithmetic drill-and-practice results in the message being lost to the medium. Which is to say that the message of why one does arithmetic is lost in the emphasis on computational accuracy. But it is the case that many teachers feel that the use of calculators in the classroom makes it more difficult for them to achieve PPA expertise. One might argue that, as this is the case, the reason is ineffective or prosaic use of calculators rather than imaginative use. Maybe. But my conclusion is that halfway houses are almost certain to be ineffective: Either elementary school arithmetic should consist of PPA without calculators or calculators without PPA. |
Kind of reminds me of how it�s drill and practice that kills the germ of wanting to learn English here and not so much those funny little machines which are after all are an easier to use dictionary, albeit without the power to define a word, and probally blurt out so many wrong answers. But then again a machine is only wrong if you beleive it, so i reckon if you can't ban 'em you should at least tell your students that they should check up on them (imaginative use of these tools) - then I'm a kindy teacher and don't really have much experience with them, but I thought the article was interesting 
Last edited by vikdk on Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:07 am; edited 3 times in total |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, which wise one decided that putting games on a learning tool (and I don't mean English-based games!) was a good idea? Of course, anything for a buck (or a yuan).
When I've read stories in the past, I can just tell when a translator has been used. Sometimes I don't even know the word! No matter what you decide, my advice is to never, EVER allow them during a test. That's akin to allowing calculators during a math test covering basic math. |
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mondrian
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 658
Location: "was that beautiful coastal city in the NE of China"
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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They are now a "yesterday's tool" where I teach.
The modern instrument is the combined cell-phone (text-messaging to tell your absent class-mates what the lesson is about?); with camera (saves having to write anything that the teacher puts on the board); games console for when you think that the teacher cannot see you (even thouigh your head is down and it is an oral English class) and of course an electronic dictionary - which is difficult to use and needs a group effort to look up the word, and for you to listen to it and then compare what is heard with what was said by the teacher five minutes previously.
Ban them? It would be like losing an arm!
What I want is an electronic box that can zap ALL cell-phones in my class, while leaving any heart pace-makers operational. Anyone know of a source? |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| why use a machine - like any sane minded Chinese business man use a countryside worker with a hammer - much cheaper - an probally more effective |
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jeffinflorida
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Plus they can use them to cheat during exams... |
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pandasteak
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 166
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:58 am Post subject: |
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they're a good resource if used properly.
I used to teach at a Univ where every kid had a laptop. When it was time for them to hand in an essay, the weaker ones would invariably type up something in chinese, and then translate the entire block of text using a program called KINGTRANS. made for some very funny essays though, i have to say. |
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