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non native speakers

 
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almuze



Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:46 pm    Post subject: non native speakers Reply with quote

What's the point of having a non native speaker be the yabanci teacher for your school?
If english is not your native language, what has driven you to Turkey to teach it?
If you are responsible for hiring these people, what are you thinking?!?!
Why Why Why? Sad but true, the non native speakers I have met who teach here certainly speak english well, and thier english is (often, but not always) better than my turkish, but it has NEVER been as good as a native speaker. Their english isn't even as good as my husbands, and he is not responsible for teaching it to impressionable young minds.
Why? is my anguished cry! why!
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tekirdag



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 505

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Economics. Non-native speaker is cheaper, probably, but can be passed off as a native speaker. And, believe me, they ARE being passed off as native speakers.

I know a guy from Albania who fled from there with his wife and kid.

The schools he works at lie about where he's from. Now he's a Brit. No one can tell the difference, apparently.

He is very popular and cleans up in privates because he's a "Brit" but (yaaay!) teaches JUST like a local!! He even uses Turkish in his lessons, therefore he is very friendly. Get a native speaker but ya don't have to work any harder! yahoooo!

I say if ya can't get the native speaker then give the job to a Turk because, god knows, there are enough unemployed here who deserve the work.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a scientific fact that native speakers of English BY THEIR MERE PRESENCE IN A CLASSROOM facilitate language acqusition.

Something to do with pheromones.
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almuze



Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The current non native speakers I know have been flown in from the Philipines, how cheap are tickets? maybe they bought them in bulk?
Yes, the kids have to use english to talk to them, but the teachers are learning the vocab along with the kids! Their only secert weapon of wisdom is access to the teachers book, but when I try to talk to them (me of many words not found in the teachers book,) the conversation is painful. I just think the whole situation is very strange. but truth is stranger than fiction, ay?
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:18 am    Post subject: non natives rock.... Reply with quote

Non native speakers of English are often very effective in the classroom, and many of them are far more proficient than your average backpacker whose main concern is 'where is the beer?'

Non natives study English 'bottom up' - with a heavy focus on grammar and structures in the early years. This means that non-natives are very effective when it comes to teaching Elementary level English, because they can actually explain the workings and mechanics (and exceptions) of the English language, which few native speakers are capable of.

Philippinos possess an accent, truth be told, but it is a charming one that would not, in general, detract a foreigner from learning English.....no more than would be the case of a foreigner being exposed to a teacher with a heavy Scottish, Irish, Welsh, or other regional accent from U.K. or elsewhere.

In the Philippines, many schools are now opening to cater to Koreans and Japanese, who have cottoned on to the fact that the Philippinos are good teachers, in addition to the fact of saving vast sums of money by learning English in the Philippines, compared with First World Countries.

Ghost in Taichung, Taiwan
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tekirdag



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 505

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
backpacker whose main concern is 'where is the beer?'


True. There are native speakers who have no clue how to teach their own language. Of course. You have made a very good point.

Quote:
non-natives are very effective when it comes to teaching Elementary level English, because they can actually explain the workings and mechanics (and exceptions) of the English language, which few native speakers are capable of.


Turks are also "non-natives". Therefore they should also be effective. So, I say, in the absense of a native speaker, give the job to a Turk.

When I lived in Istanbul, I really had no clue how Turkey really is. Now I do. Soooo many great, educated people from here work for crap money or can't find jobs at all. Why bring someone from another country who will do the job as good as a local and leave the local folk without work?
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Sheikh Inal Ovar



Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208
Location: Melo Drama School

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghost wrote:
Non-natives study English 'bottom up'


I've always found the 'bottoms up' approach to be far more communicative ... though that other one is rather fun as well ... 'tops down'...

... don't language learners have to play that one too ...
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dmb



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
they can actually explain the workings and mechanics (and exceptions) of the English language, which few native speakers are capable of.
Very true. But just because you understand
Quote:
the workings and mechanics (and exceptions) of the English language
does not mean you can teach it. one of my friends does not have a clue about linguistics or anything related, yet as a kindergarten teacher I hear he is very successful. Personally, I am a grammar head and a weakness of my teaching is I try to pass this off on to students and maybe... just possibly give too much detail and input. Confused
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saloma



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In the Philippines, many schools are now opening to cater to Koreans and Japanese, who have cottoned on to the fact that the Philippinos are good teachers, in addition to the fact of saving vast sums of money by learning English in the Philippines, compared with First World Countries.


The Phillipinos are dreaming. There is a very rigid racial ladder set up in Asia. Korea and Japan are in top, and the farther south you move, and the darker your skin gets, the lower the rung you occupy.

Phillipinos and Indoneasions are shipped in to do the jobs the locals won't do - especially in Hong Kong, Japan and Taiwan. They build subways and clean apartments, and they are usually treated horribly for it.

Asians want "white" teachers, with blue eyes and blonde hair. Even ABC'sand ABJ's (American Born Chinese and Japanese) are turned away from jobs during the initial interview because they look Asian. In regards to accents, my old Kiwi roommate got turned away from jobs because he didn't sound "North American" enough.

So, Japanese and Koreans are going to go to The Phlips to learn English? They won't even vacation there because it"s "poor and dirty and very danger!"
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:40 am    Post subject: reply Reply with quote

Quote:
So, Japanese and Koreans are going to go to The Phlips to learn English? They won't even vacation there because it"s "poor and dirty and very danger!"


Not entirely true. Ghost spent three weeks in the Philippines during Chinese New Year and there were significant numbers of Koreans visiting different scenic spots in the Philippines on package tours. You could see them by the bus loads. The Philippinos do not really like them - because they do not tip....but it is better than not having any tourists.

While it is true that Manila is dirty, crowded and smoggy, there are other parts of the Philippines where the infrastructure is good enough to cater to tourists (Boracay, Palawan, and Mindoro Island).

With the present attempted coup in the Philippines, some tourists are putting off their plans to travel to the Philippines.

Ghost loves it there - for the simple reason that in most places there are few tourists.....

The Philippines is good and interesting because it has just the right dose of Eastern exoticism with a basic culture that is not disimilar to the west....so it has the right balance. In most places in Asia, we (as foreigners) are alienated from the culture and people......even in places like Thailand - the so called land of the 'smiles' (false smiles....when you dig deep).

Ghost in Taichung, Taiwan
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saloma



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... You might be onto something! If they could set up an English school in a 5 star resort, then the Taiwanese would go, but I still feel they wouldn't easily accept a local as a teacher. They would import by advertising on Dave's.

I liked the Phillipines too, but it may have changed a lot since I was there....9 years ago! Embarassed
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dmb



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
an English school in a 5 star resort
I once saw an ad for a job in the Maldives at a 5* resort. Needed to be a UK passport holder.
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saloma



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pre or post tsunami? (I can think of a few teachers I'd like to jettison down there. Twisted Evil )
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saloma



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't thinking about the teachers being caught in a tsunami, I was thinking more that the Maldives are far, far away from here.
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