Job Discussion Forums

[Teaque]

I have been working at my current school for 2 years. For the 1st year and 1/2, I was contracted out by an agent. When my last contract was up, I signed on with my school directly. My school nor I have a legal binding to the agent, but they have my work permit which was processed while my last contract was in effect. Now, I know the correct thing for the agent to do is to return my work permit to me or give me a release letter so that my school can register me as their employee. But because the agent has lost on their middleman fee, they are refusing to return my permit.

To make matters worse, my school is timid as they have recently begun hiring FTs and they are scared to get in the middle. They keep telling me to ask the agent for the permit when they know that the agent is not acknowledging my calls nor e-mails.

I would like to know if there is a provision for foreigners to be able to file a complaint with the local PSB. I have no problem going to the office on my own and filing a complaint. I have all the documents necessary - the old contract which shows the expiry date and the e-mails between the agent & I, where in they've even told me to seek alternate employment if I don't find their clauses satisfactory. By saying that, they thought I'd buckle under & re-sign. They never expected my school to hire me directly.

I don't speak more than basic Chinese. Certainly not enough to work on this on my own. I'm getting tired and frustrated with my school's fear to tackle this issue.

Now before you go on & tell me to quit & find another place, there are several reasons I've stayed put for 2 years: the work, the students, the staff, living conditions. Everything is very good. The only snag is the Head of the English Dept who is unwilling, I'd even say he strikes me as scared, to speak to the agent. No idea why.

Are there fees involved when one files a complaint with the PSB?

My Internet connection at home is erratic at the moment owing to the rains. My responses to queries, if any, might be delayed.

Any other tips/suggestions are welcome.

Thank you.

[clark.w.griswald]

My understanding of your situation is that you went through an agent who introduced you to a school that you liked so you signed up. You and the school have now cut the agent out of the deal by signing an agreement directly.

I know that I will likely come into a degree of criticism for my comments, but personally I believe that you are in the wrong. Whether or not you sign a piece of paper that prevents you from dealing directly with the school that the agent introduces you to, I believe that there is an understanding that you won�t do this. If you want to deal through an agent then you choose to do this. If you want to deal direct with schools then you do that. But you can�t in good conscience expect the agent to introduce you to schools and then believe that it is okay for you to just deal direct. I understand that this is your second year and I also understand any suggestion that it would be easy money for the recruiter if you sign on for a second year, but then I believe that the fact that you are happy with your school indicates that the recruiter has done a good job in finding you a good school and that is afterall what they get paid for.

I state the above as I have a feeling that when push comes to shove that this is what the recruiter would use against you and I believe that the authorities would accept this.

Having said this I believe that if you want to pursue the matter then the PSB should be your first point of contact. You should first ensure however that you are totally legal at present as involving the PSB could be to your detriment if your paperwork is not in order.

In dealing with the PSB I recommend that you:

1. Be aware that they are unlikely to offer you any assistance that you don�t directly ask for;
2. Prepare all relevant paperwork that may be required;
3. Research what you believe to be your point in involving the PSB;
4. Be polite, well tempered but firm, and that you persevere;
5. Be willing to make a number of visits as your complaint makes its way up the chain of command.
6. Finally, come back and let us all know how you went and pass on any advice that you may have for others who find themselves in a similar situation in the future

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

Edited to remove offensive content.

Middy

[woza17]

I totally agree with clark on this issue. What would usually happen, is, if the school wants to hire you directly then the school would pay a finders fee. It may be a way for you to resolve the problem with your agent I have worked for schools through my company and have been approached to work directly for them. I refused and also told my boss about it.

[Roger]

Murky,really murky!

First of all: what kind of "agent" is that? Does it have a licence to hire FTs???
If so, then they surely must be atraining centre or a school. Only that situation is acceptable as an explanation for your worries!
Do you happen to have a legal residence permit in your passport?

You owe allegiance to your employer - in this case my understanding is that your 'agent' is your employer.

Does your current school that wants to hire you on their own terms have the licence to hire you? I doubt it since they had to resort to the use of a go-between to get you on their staff.
As I see it, you have - wittingly or unwittingly - given yourself into the hands of a rogue business and been partners with them so long as it suited you. Bailing out comes at a price - either you quit and disappear, or you pay a ransom!

[7969]

as far as i can see (and i worked for an agent in taiwan) all ties with that agent should have been severed at the same time. including the returning of any paperwork in their possession that you might need in future.

either you have to get it on your own, or the school has to back you up a bit and get it for you (from the agent). i would try it on my own first, even hanging out where i might find this agent until they showed up. surely you can find them or their office. if that didnt work, then let your school know that if they dont get it for you, you will not be able to stay. they're in a better position than you are to recover the work permit.

7969

[latefordinner]

Roger:

[Spiderman Too]

I suspect that the type of �agent� Teaque is referring to is, in fact, an �education company� that employs teachers and then subcontracts them out to schools. This practice is not altogether uncommon in China (especially for schools that have applied for but have not yet received permission to employ foreigners; apparently it can take up to 1 year for schools to be issued with the permit) notwithstanding that the F.E.C. allows employment only at the premises of the named employer.

Anyway Teaque, I assume that your �new� school now has permission to employ foreigners (and probably didn�t when you were being supplied to them by the agent). If so, your only option is to obtain �Z� visa sponsorship documents from your new school, go to Hong Kong or Bangkok and obtain a new visa and upon your return your new school can get you a new F.R.P. and F.E.C..

I will offer anyone on this forum odds of 10,000 to 1 that the PSB will not order the agent to give Teaque the F.E.C., if, in fact, the agent has not already cancelled it (which they can do).

[Teaque]

A few of you have commented about the agent being cut out. I, too, understand their position, but signing on with the school directly was not my choice initially. After my first 6 month contract was up, my school asked me to join them directly, but I didn't entertain the thought 'cos I believed in "Better the devil you than the one you don't." Yes, I'll admit it wasn't loyalty that kept me on 'cos in the first 6 months itself, I had seen first hand how rude the agent was to some of the younger FTs. Those youngsters landed up being some of their best teachers for that term.

When my school made me the offer in Aug 2004, I told them that my agent & I did not have any problems and I was happy with the way things were going. In Aug 2005 however, the situation changed. The agent (more on how they operate a little later) tried to book me for classes off campus (I teach at a boarding school). Not travelling to work was something I had strictly requested before I joined & only when they found this boarding school for me, I signed on. During the summer last year, when my school was closed, I taught some of the summer classes at the agent's school and there was a favourable response from the students and therefore, the agent tried to book similar classes for me off campus in the new term. That was the new clause they added in the contract. I kicked up a fuss and reminded them of our agreement before I joined. They told me if I didn't like it, I could leave.....thinking I would give in. They were confident I wouldn't leave because I love my school and it's a mutual feeling. So I went to the Head of the English Dept at my school and asked if their offer for direct employment was still open. I explained why I was asking. He offered to sign me on directly. So it's not like I switched gears because I got greedy or was ungrateful.

About the agent. They are a private language school that has evening and weekend classes. They have FTs that teach at their school and a few regular schools in the city. Some other FTs are based at boarding schools and they teach all their classes on campus itself. The agency is a registered one. There's something not quite right though. For the first year I was with them, the FTs did not get tax receipts and all of us were told to go to Hong Kong to get F visas. Last year, they began insisting on work visas, but there were still no tax receipts.

My school is licensed to hire teachers. I was the first to be hired through this agent. They had 2 direct hires before me and now 3 more. That's why they are all flustered with the agent who has been harassing them with phone calls to sack me or to pay a chunk of my salary to them. Both of which are legally not warranted. My school understands that and has so far refused to give in to their demands.

As for the work permit, the agent retains the same of all their teachers. I need it now because the Finance Manager of my school is not giving me my pay without the permit. I have a copy of the same, but he insists on the original. I can understand his reason. I need to be a legit employee before he pays me.

After the Spring Festival break, they offered me 80% of my salary. I refused to accept it. I said I want the full amount and there is no reason to hold on to the 20%. If anything, I should get nothing at all since I don't have my work permit in hand.

When this thing first began in Sept/Oct, I requested my agent to return my permit and damage deposit. If they didn't, I told them, not threatened, that I would be forced to inform the Consulate. They promptly got a lawyer involved and sent him over with a letter saying I had lied about carrying on with them. I did get in touch with the Consulate and was told that they don't get involved in labour disputes. I had no idea! So that fell flat and I was left to deal with the agent on my own as the Head backed down in fear.

I'm in no rush to go to the PSB. I'm aware that it will take up far too much time and energy and eventually, success is not guaranteed. I'm now trying brief the head of the Middle School English dept about my situation and am hoping that she will be arrange for a meeting between the agent and I. They still refuse to answer my calls and do not respond to my e-mails. Today is day 3 that I'm trying to get the Middle School teacher. I know she's one busy woman, but I'm going to try her first as she dealt with the agent while she was employed at another school in the city. She doesn't have a very favourable opinion of them (the agent).

I will certainly keep you informed about what is going on. I intend divulging the name of the agent, too, after this mess has been cleared up. They get a steady stream of FTs right through the year. For the most part, the experiences are trouble free, but those of us who stayed on for more than a year noticed that the longer one stays with them, the more careless/ruthless they get with us.

Thank you everyone.

[clark.w.griswald]

[7969]

i would probably take spidermans advice. get your school to provide you with the sponsor letter for the Z visa, go to hong kong, get a new Z visa then come back starting from square one again. then your "agent" will have no leverage over you and you can relax.

this is the easiest and least painful way to deal with this. will take you a week in all to do it and no worries.

7969

[Roger]

You have my sympathies but they won't be ogf much use in your fight against that "agent" (a term I find misleading since they were your original employers that loaned you to a public school).

While as a Westerner one feels one knows what's right you have to accept that the same perspective is not available to Chinese! Here, habits and customs prevail! I suppose, your middle school has in the past always hired its FTs through that training centre; they have formed an informal partnership that one side has decided must remain in tact all the time.
Are you sure your public school can hire you legally? When did they obtain the licence to hire on their own?

Now, as for customs and habits in China: some are even in direct contradiction to laws. I learnt at my own expense that an IOU from an in-law or a relative binds the debtor in no legal way; the courts regard such IOUs as worthless, arguing that "money 'lent' to dependants or in-laws is money given as a gift". No matter what the IOU states...

Also, your own in-laws can burglarise your home and make off with anything inside - you can never press charges against them for violation of your home or for theft!

While the above have little or nothing in common with your situation you must bear in mind that we live in a nation that hasn't had "lwas" in the modern sense we Westerners know! The concept of legality is not well understood here!

I remember in Hong Kong you can be forced to pay a commission to a housing agent even if you found a place to live without their help; they have parcelled up the urban districts among the agencies and these agencies, by dint of tradition, cash in on every transaction in their burroughs!

So, in your case the "agent" can hardly be cut out without compensation - I fear! You signally failed to notify them in good time of your intention of becoming a staff member of their competitor!

[latefordinner]

Thanks, Roger, for responding to the spirit of the OP's post. I apologise for not adding anything with regards to the original question specifically, and for continuing what may well become another pointless debate. That said..

[latefordinner]

Thanks, Roger, for responding to the spirit of the OP's post. I apologise for not adding anything with regards to the original question specifically, and for continuing what may well become another pointless debate. That said..

[Joe C.]