Job Discussion Forums

thelmadatter · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: isolation

OK Im gonna admit it. After 2.5 years here, Im still very isolated and spend far too much time alone. I know much of it is my fault. I have never had very good social skills. Im not a freak but I find just talking to people I dont know very extremely intimidating. Feeling very much the outsider here has only made things worse for me.

I love my job and get along well with my co-workers on the job... In fact, a number have told me I have integrated better than just about any other foreigner they have had in the dept (and I met a number of them). One even jokingly calls me her "daughter." However, that comraderie has not extended to a social life with them or anyone else. The feeling I get is that everyone is wrapped up with their family and friends and the desire to let a "stranger" in is not that strong. Only one has made efforts (which I have accepted) but I am careful not to become some kind of parasite on her.

I really get the feeling here in Toluca that everyone has their own little cocoon and has little desire to associate outside of that cocoon.

On my side, I do best in structured environments (classes, activities). I tried to start a regular card game with those I get along best but that didnt pan out. Neither did my efforts to start some kind of group for foreigners in Toluca (despite many people saying it was a good idea). When I ask about such things, no one seems to know what exists.

Im really not looking for pity, but I would like to have some kind of life outside of work. Im looking for suggestions.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

I was feeling that way in Acapulco where if it isn't dealing with tourists, then it doesn' exist there. To combat the feeling, I worked on organizing a floor hockey get together with local kids, though it was cut off before starting because I came back to DF.

Are you into sports? Maybe there is something there in Toluca to get involved in. There is always much more than soccer going on, and if you have time to be a coach or assistant, or even just help out in an admin role, perhaps you can find a different sort of folk to associate with.

I'd say check out a church, chapel, or mosque, but I don't think you are the religious type?

Gardening?

You and I have been out a few times now...and I've always thought you are a lot of fun. If you know how to play euchre, I could use a partner.

Getting people together there in Toluca doesn't seem like an easy thing to do. First, Toluca isn't that big. Second, from another forum, I get the impression that the only foreigners in Toluca are sour retired folk (present company excluded of course).

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

hlamb · Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 431 Location: Canada

Thelma, I totally sympathize. I'm in a small town and while people are very friendly and always willing to chat, few seem to want to invite me into their lives. I'm a bit of a loner anyway and like my own company, but here I'm getting a bit too much of it! Shocked

My coworkers are very nice and I do socialize with one in particular, but she's married to a Mexican so has to spend a lot of time doing "family" things. It's definitely a tough fact of life for teachers, especially in small towns. There are almost no other foreigners here and I'm seen by many Mexicans as an object of friendly curiosity, rather than as a potential friend.

Cdaniels · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:28 am Post subject: Here's a hug

I know you're not looking for pity, but...

And I've been thinking of going to Toluca, too! Unfortunately for you, in addition to also having poor social skills, I really am a freak! Shocked

Can you have a pet where you're living? Pets are wonderful.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Pets are wonderful friends...

thelmadatter · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject: thanks

Thanks guys... nice to know Im not totally crazy. I have 3 cats btw... cats who are not happy with me these days because Im not spending enough time home with them.

I am dating someone, nothing really serious. (needless to say the cats are less than thrilled when he's over). But he lives in DF and Im a little miffed, so of course that didnt help my mood over the weekend

MELEE · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject:

Guy's suggestions are really good. Racket sports are big in our little city, and many teachers make connections through the racket club. There's tennis, squash, and of course fronton.

I'm terrible with a racket, so went the dating--and marrying!--a local route. My husband is from this town and knows so many people. First there's his extended family, who have totally accepted me. Then his university friends, who know me professionally so we don't hang that much. And his high school friends, who at first didn't warm up to me, but now have, and a million other people. At work, among the Mexicans, many are also from other parts of the country and are in the same situation as outsiders, so some friendships have been made.

It is probably actually harder to meet people in a city the size of Toluca then it is here, as everyone knows who I am and what I'm doing here. I'm invovled in a lot of events at our local museum, maybe that would be a route?

I don't know if this is good news for you or bad news, but I think I didn't really feel like I fit in until sometime AFTER the four year mark.

M@tt · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Location: here and there

melee brought up a good point. i would gravitate toward mexicans who are from other cities. they will have a situation closer to yours and maybe be more open to new friendships. obviously you can't know where they're from until after you've met them, but i guess if you feel like clinging to someone you could choose people from outside of toluca who have relocated.

another thing i've noticed is that i have more in common with, and a much easier time getting to know personally, people who have lived abroad. it's not really the english, either, since i speak spanish 95% of the time i'm with mexicans. i just think it makes them more open and receptive to friendship with foreigners.

just some ideas. i've totally been where you are (like, TOTALLY, dude), both in mexico and in france. it was much worse in france.

Ben Round de Bloc · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1946

I think a lot of it has to do with age. It's hard for me to meet people my age, because so many of them are dead. (Sorry, my weird sense of humor. Embarassed

) Seriously, most of the other foreigners I meet who are my age (and more or less alive) are retired. Their lifestyles are quite different from mine, and I rarely have an opportunity to socialize with them. I'm not much of a social person anyway, but most of the people I do socialize with are younger than I am. Some are locals but most are from other parts of the Republic. Most native Yucatecans function in very closed circles socially, which makes it difficult for outsiders to be accepted.

thelmadatter · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject: age

Now that you mention it Ben, age could be a handicap as well. Almost all of the social activities I see are geared for the teen and 20-something crowd. Maybe folks here figure that once your married, you dont need a social life anymore!

lozwich · Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 1536

Hi Thelmadatter,

I've been thinking about my reply to this post for a couple of days (been on my deathbed, lots of time on my hands...), and hoping this doesn't come across as harsh or insensitive, because I definitely don't mean it that way.

One of the reasons I left my home country was that I felt isolated there. At 33, single, and working a ridiculous schedule, I didn't have time for much of a social life and was Miserable. In the city where I lived, most people settle down the day after they turn 30, and I definitely wasn't having any of that! Since moving overseas, I've felt isolated at various times in my travels, particularly when I'm ill or bored (or both!).

What I do now is try to find ways to help both those things and make the time for my hobbies, regardless of whether or not anyone wants to come with me. Since arriving in Bogota I've started yoga classes (which I love) and also am attending a part time course at an art school. This hasn't made me thousands of friends, but I enjoy myself at both places, and it gives me something to think about when I'm at home by myself. Yeah, I don't have the social life I would ideally like, but I'm not bored anymore.

Most of my friends in the past few years have been about 10 years younger than me. That sucks sometimes, because sometimes our brains are just in different places, but other times its great for keeping me young! I remember one morning at about 3am in a very loud nightclub in Spain saying to my pals "You know I'm Very Old", and they promptly remarked "So?????". So I figured if they didn't care, I didn't either!

Also, I agree with the mixing with people who have moved around a bit. They seem to understand what you are going through.

Have a lovely day,
Lozwich.

jfurgers · Joined: 18 Sep 2005 Posts: 442 Location: Mexico City

It's not only in Mexico. My wife and I have been living in McKinney Texas for five years and before that in Addison Texas for three years, and we've found that it's VERY hard to make true friends here.
It seems like all that people care about these days are there kids and spouses, nothing more.
I only lived in Mexico for seven months a long time ago and we're planning on going back to Mexico City later this year if our house sells. Her brothers who live in Mexico City seem to be the same way, they care nothing about what happens outside of their own backyards.
Perhaps you should try to meet some students who are single and go out with them sometimes
I teach ESL here in Plano Texas and I sometimes will go out with a group of my students.

John