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jjskizo421
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 5
Location: San Diego, CA
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 Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:52 am Post subject: Want to go to Japan but getting dissollusioned...please help |
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Ok, so I am someone who works my ass off and is good at what I do. I have a degree, but have no ESL teaching experience. That being said, I've had trouble making sense of this whole ESL situation. Here's what I gather so far...
1. There are 4 big corporations.
2. They treat you like shit.
3. There are other smaller conversation schools that treat you better, but it seems like they require experience, or are in a smaller, more rural/suburban part of Japan.
I want to go to an urban environment, preferably Tokyo, Chiba, or Yokohama, but am open. What are some other decent urban areas?
Also, what is the happy medium between the large corporations, and a smaller school? Anyone know of a decent school who will sponsor your visa and not require experience? I have a feeling NOVA is not the answer, I've heard horror stories. What about the other big ones? Any info on which one I should go for? A school somewhere medium-sized. I am someone who doesn't like to be completely limited in my teaching style, I want to be creative in the classroom, and problem solve, and...you know...teach, do whatever it takes to get people to understand the language. Also, is there anyone else in San diego who feels my pain? If so, let's go grab lunch or something so we're not alone in this quest for teaching English in a land far, far away. |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:02 am Post subject: |
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Joining any company is a lottery and as I've said before the time you have will be dependent on the dynamic of the people in the school you're at.
Generally a healthy office is a happy office and visa versa.
I think my best time in Japan was had in a 'big 4' eikaiwa. It changed of course, depending on who was working there at the time. But for a solid year we had a great bunch of people who all got on really well. Also the worlds most entertaining, workaholic, forgiving and incompetent manager who for some reason let us take infinite lunch breaks. This was, and to my knowledge still is, one of the most successful schools in Tokyo.
All those schools that are hell on earth are just perpetuating their own misery!
Go over for a year with no unrealistic expectations and a positive attitude and you will probably have a blast. |
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Jazz1975
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 301
Location: Zama, Kanagawa
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| womblingfree wrote: |
| Also the worlds most entertaining, workaholic, forgiving and incompetent manager who for some reason let us take infinite lunch breaks. This was, and to my knowledge still is, one of the most successful schools in Tokyo. |
I heard about this on another thread, but can't remember which one. N e ways, like I mentioned there, I sure hope I get into that school with that particular manager...lol...rofl...  |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:31 am Post subject: Re: Want to go to Japan but getting dissollusioned...please |
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| jjskizo421 wrote: |
| O1. There are 4 big corporations. |
Theres more: NOVA AEON GEOS ECC and Berlitz. NOVA is the biggest.
Other schools that recruit overseas
Interac
language House
peppy Kids club
Jame English school
Wisdom 21
ALTIA
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| 2. They treat you like *beep* |
Sh-it is a relative term and like bad employers, you have bad employers and people who abuse the system and make it bad for people who follow after them. NOVA treats staff like 12 year olds as they are not grown up and mature enough to prove themselves worth of the title "professional". Not all but many. Scan the threads to see what kinds of things people say about working there. teaching seems to be the last thing on their minds. I have also found these schools are what you make them. they are not there to entertain you but you are there to WORK. Plenty of companies treat you like sh-it. Look at Walmart and mcDonalds. Even Starbucks workers went on strike.
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| 3. There are other smaller conversation schools that treat you better, but it seems like they require experience, or are in a smaller, more rural/suburban part of Japan. |
there are also a lof of sh-it schools as well as size doesnt necessarily mean it will be better. I hear from people who have wages withheld, sexually harassed, bullied or made to work unpaid overtime. Every school is different. Suburban/ rural makes up about all of Japan that isnt mountains.
Rural is country, suburban means in the city. Tokyo has suburbs, so does Chiba. JETs are all over the country.
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| I want to go to an urban environment, preferably Tokyo, Chiba, or Yokohama, but am open. What are some other decent urban areas? |
I dont live in Chiba but there are lots of cities in Chiba (even the airport is out that way. Lots of farms and rice paddies too. Big cities? nagoya, Osaka. Hiroshima, Sapporo.
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| Also, what is the happy medium between the large corporations, and a smaller school? Anyone know of a decent school who will sponsor your visa and not require experience? I have a feeling NOVA is not the answer, I've heard horror stories. |
Heard this one?
http://www.vocaro.com/trevor/japan/nova/level_up.html
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| I am someone who doesn't like to be completely limited in my teaching style, I want to be creative in the classroom, and problem solve, and...you know...teach, do whatever it takes to get people to understand the language. |
The big chain schools wont let you do all of those things as they have a textbook, a curriculum they use. What would happen if hundreds of teachers just wanted t wing it and do what they like with no teaching standards?
What is your teaching experience? Doing what ever it takes means that you have never actually studies how to teach English and would simply make it up as you go along. Learn how to teach ESL first by doing a course and then once you get a job use what you know. Dont use paying students as guinea pigs while you learn.
PS some NOVA branches has 2-3 teachers and would count as 'small' schools, compared with one that has 20 teachers in osaka or Tokyo. |
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jjskizo421
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 5
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: you guys are awesome |
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| you guys are awesome, I am pleased with how many responses I received and how quickly. Thank you so much. Yesterday, before finding this forum I was someone with a somewhat idealistic vision and a dream; today I am someone with a realistic idea of what teaching in Japan is going to be like, and am willing to make the commitment. One more question, is getting TEFL certified really worth it? Does it help you get a job, or is it just yet another way to capitilize on young hopefulls ignorance? Once again, thanks for all the helpfull advice, this forum is great (sorry if I am sounding like a super positive-type dweeb, just happy to hear a bunch of helpful comments). Still no one out there in San Diego? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:29 am Post subject: Re: you guys are awesome |
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| jjskizo421 wrote: |
| you guys are awesome, I am pleased with how many responses I received and how quickly. Thank you so much. Yesterday, before finding this forum I was someone with a somewhat idealistic vision and a dream; today I am someone with a realistic idea of what teaching in Japan is going to be like, and am willing to make the commitment. One more question, is getting TEFL certified really worth it? Does it help you get a job, or is it just yet another way to capitilize on young hopefulls ignorance? Once again, thanks for all the helpfull advice, this forum is great (sorry if I am sounding like a super positive-type dweeb, just happy to hear a bunch of helpful comments). Still no one out there in San Diego? |
If you only plan to come here for a year and party and have an off year, spending thousands of dollars on training is not a good investment as you will not make it back in salary. they will train you their way. Not only that, come in waving a CELTA and they may judge you to be overqualified.
Come here with a chain school, learn the ropes, get you feet wet and if you decide you want to stick around longer and learn about what you are doing by all means do a course.
You can do a course before you come so you are not actually totally ignorant. teaching a language is not the same as speaking it, and a 100 hour CELTA course will show you how much you dont know about your own language. it is possible to fail a CELTA training course too. ELT has a theory and rather than teach yourself or make assumptions you are better to learn how to do it properly.
Getting trained never actually killed anyone and the education will do you good. If you see it as ripoff then maybe you are not that serious about teaching as a job if you are not prepared to spend money on proper training. |
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Jazz1975
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 301
Location: Zama, Kanagawa
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:44 am Post subject: Re: you guys are awesome |
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| jjskizo421 wrote: |
| Yesterday, before finding this forum I was someone with a somewhat idealistic vision and a dream; today I am someone with a realistic idea of what teaching in Japan is going to be like, and am willing to make the commitment. |
Looks like we're on the exact same boat  . I also had an idealistic vision & a dream prior to joining Dave's. Thank god I found this place. Now I have a much more realistic view, both the good and the bad, of what teaching in Japan will be like. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| If you guys are newbies I suggest you read the stickies I wrote at the top, the teaching in Japan site at http://www.eltnews.com has good info too. |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: |
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A healthy dose of reality is always a good thing. But don't let it put you off doing something you want to do. A couple of years in a Japanese eikaiwa couldn't be that bad if people continue to want to come year after year. By all accounts Japan is still preferable to Korea and maybe also China as a first time experience.
Though as I'd said repeatedly for someone eager to start a career in EFL Japan may not be the best place to do so. A survival level job in Latin America or Eastern Europe might be a better intro to real teaching. |
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Jazz1975
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 301
Location: Zama, Kanagawa
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| abufletcher wrote: |
| Though as I'd said repeatedly for someone eager to start a career in EFL Japan may not be the best place to do so. A survival level job in Latin America or Eastern Europe might be a better intro to real teaching. |
For me, I'm not looking for a career in EFL at the moment. My plan is to go to Japan, stay for a few years, then go back home. That said, plans do change, and if I do see a career for me in EFL, then by all means, I'm willing to change course. And yes, a healthy dose of reality is a VERY good thing. Makes for educated decisions. |
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Jazz1975
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 301
Location: Zama, Kanagawa
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| abufletcher wrote: |
| Though as I'd said repeatedly for someone eager to start a career in EFL Japan may not be the best place to do so. A survival level job in Latin America or Eastern Europe might be a better intro to real teaching. |
For me, I'm not looking for a career in EFL at the moment. My plan is to go to Japan, stay for a few years, then go back home. That said, plans do change, and if I do see a career for me in EFL, then by all means, I'm willing to change course. And yes, a healthy dose of reality is a VERY good thing. Makes for good, educated decisions. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I am someone who doesn't like to be completely limited in my teaching style, I want to be creative in the classroom, and problem solve, and...you know...teach, |
Do you really know what eikaiwa (conversation school) instructors do? If they have adults (anyone over 18 anyway) for students, the point is to give them practice in...surprise!...conversation because they don't get much in their 6 years of English grammar instruction in JHS/SHS.
You are NOT their grammar teacher, although many of your lessons will have grammar points in them. You review the grammar, but there is little writing or homework in an eikaiwa, and darned little testing. The whole point is to converse, so to teach, you must speak as little as possible, giving students time to do it.
Your classes are maybe 4 to 6 students in size, not 30 or 40 like JHS or SHS.
The Big Four and many other places have their own teaching format, and you must follow it, often to the letter no matter how stupid or pointless you think it might be. Not much room for creativity there. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| jjskizo421 wrote: |
| A school somewhere medium-sized. I am someone who doesn't like to be completely limited in my teaching style, I want to be creative in the classroom, and problem solve, and...you know...teach, do whatever it takes to get people to understand the language. Also, is there anyone else in San diego who feels my pain? If so, let's go grab lunch or something so we're not alone in this quest for teaching English in a land far, far away. |
You have no teaching experience whatsoever but you just want to be able to waltz into a classroom open the book and just teach a lesson by the seat of your pants and hope some how the method you use works and students magically understand you and they magically start talking.
the reason NOVA has teach-by-numbers format is because 80% of its teachers know next to nothing about teaching EFL, language acquisition or the learning needs of their students. The book does all the work for you and all you have to do is do what the textbook tells you step-by-step. the methodology is already woven into the lesson. You wouldnt know what you are doing if you are being 'creative' yet have never taught English before. I have seen people break into a cold sweat about doing a 5- minute demo lesson at a job interview let alone a 40-minute lesson with real students.
You are a paid conversationalist at a conversation school. Teachers actually get training and have experience in what they are doing.
PS Teaching English is not about problem solving, its not a math class. Students will make mistakes and errors in speaking English. Its up to you to recognise those mistakes (do you know the difference between a speaking error and speaking mistake?) and know how to fix them. Some problems are impossible to fix as they are part of learning but you can learn how and why students make the mistakes they do.
You dont want to start a career but want to be allowed free reign to do what you want, with no one standing over you telling you what to do. I dont expect a n eikaiwa teacher to last more than a couple of years but in effect you are no more than a long term working tourist.
| Quote: |
| That said, plans do change, and if I do see a career for me in EFL, then by all means, I'm willing to change course. And yes, a healthy dose of reality is a VERY good thing. Makes for good, educated decisions. |
I planned to stay here a year at least and Im still here 20 years later. Yes plans do change so be prepared for them. |
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jjskizo421
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 5
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Post subject: a realist, I back that |
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| thanks PaulH, I've read a bunch of your comments, and you always seem to be the one to bring everyone down to earth. Your comments are very realistic, I know how it must feel to read a bunch of newbies 'stupid' questions and am afraid to say I'm just another one of them. Damn, you've been there 20 years? You get married or somethin'? What do you think of Japan after 20 years? And did you teach all 20 of those years? Got any soulfull Japanese music you'd recommend? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:53 am Post subject: Re: a realist, I back that |
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| jjskizo421 wrote: |
| thanks PaulH, I've read a bunch of your comments, and you always seem to be the one to bring everyone down to earth. Your comments are very realistic, I know how it must feel to read a bunch of newbies 'stupid' questions and am afraid to say I'm just another one of them. Damn, you've been there 20 years? You get married or somethin'? What do you think of Japan after 20 years? And did you teach all 20 of those years? Got any soulfull Japanese music you'd recommend? |
1. Im inured to them now, thats why i have stickies to help me. Read those first and you save me a lot of work.
2. Theres no stupid questions only stupid answers.
3. Everyone has to start somewhere, including me a long time ago (1987)
4.Wife is Japanese.
5. What I think of Japan? How much time have you got?
6. Never been unemployed in all that time. Everything from eikaiwa with two teachers, company classes, teaching Japanese military, universities. Now full time where i am.
7. Not really into Japanese music but stuff I have listened to is
Chage and Aska, Southern All Stars. Okamura Takako (great voice) |
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