Job Discussion Forums

[coffeespoonman]

Hi all,

My girlfriend and I are currently teaching in Turkey. Our contracts end in July, whereupon I'll be heading up to do the Trans-Siberian thing. Assuming that I'll blow my savings on traveling across the world, I'm going to want to pick up a job for at least a year in Asia, possibly in Taiwan.

Question #1: How easy is it to work (legally or illegally) without a degree? I have a B.A. and M.A., but my girlfriend only has her cert.
Question #2: What kind of work will she find without a degree? It's pretty easy here in Turkey to have a perfectly good standard of living without a B.A. Is it the same in Taiwan?
Question #3: How well connected is Taiwan by boat? I HATE flying, and have been making a sort of "grande voyage" out of crossing the world overland only. It's been great so far, and I know I can easily make it to China, but can I get to Taiwan just as easily?

Thank you for the help.

Oh, and ghost, if you have any other Turkey-Taiwan transition tips, can you hook me up? Cheers!

[clark.w.griswald]

[Aristotle]

There are few passenger ferries to or from Taiwan. There is still a periodic ferry service to the Southern Japanese islands out of the northern city of Keelung but the current government has been working full tilt since it's inception 6 years ago to isolate Taiwan and it's people by and means possible to further their political agenda. That means a drastic reduction in passenger ferry traffic formerly known as the "Blue Highway".


Most employers have little interest with credentials or legalities as laws on Taiwan are widely ignored by the vast majority of the population living outside of Taipei. Even in the capital, laws tend to be just one big grey area that changes with the needs of the criminals.
The biggest problem most teachers are facing on Taiwan is the decreasing pay and low number of jobs caused by Taiwan's continued economic decline coupled with a drastically reduced number of students resulting from an aging population and immigration by Taiwanese families with the means.

Be prepared, get a multiple entry visa from the TECO office (what real countries call a consulate) and bring enough cash to set you up for several weeks or months depending on the job market next season.


Good luck!
A.

[wood]

[sigmoid]

[Miyazaki]

[clark.w.griswald]

For anyone who may have missed it Miyazaki is referring to the fact that you can legally get a work permit to work in Taiwan if you have a diploma plus TESOL.

Miyazaki I am not misleading anyone. Although it is theoretically possible to do this, it is also very difficult in practice. In my opinion it is misleading to suggest to people who don't have degrees but do have a diploma plus TESOL that they can get work here in Taiwan as in practice it is very difficult for these sorts of people to get work.

Why? Well as I have said many times on this board I see the reasons as follows:

1. Many schools and employers are unaware that they can theoretically process a work visa for academic qualifications less than a bachelors. This means that applications from people who don't have at least a bachelors are not likely to given serious consideration by most schools. In fact many schools state a degree as being a pre-requisite.

2. Even if a school is aware that they can legally hire someone who doesn't have a degree but does have a diploma plus TESOL, given the choice most of those schools will choose a degree holder as they are more marketable to the students. The market is already competitive enough for teachers who are on an even footing, I feel sorry for anyone who starts out behind the black ball with anything less than Bachelors.

3. Finally and most importantly, what qualifies as a diploma in the eyes of the government in Taiwan and which TESOL certifications do they accept? I consider myself to be pretty well versed in administrative and legal issues here in Taiwan, but this is an issue that I have never received a suitable answer for. Maybe you can answer this one for us Miyazaki!

So although it is theoretically possible to get work here with a diploma plus TESOL and some teachers do it, it is next to impossible in terms of practicality.

Given this fact I would personally rather a teacher who may have had a chance to find a job give Taiwan a miss for more productive shores, than to be responsible for suggesting that that person come on over only to find that he or she can't get a legal job and either has to return home or worse still accept an illegal job.

And here is what happens when people follow the advice that Miyazaki dishes out:

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=35805

Miyazaki, I would be interested in your comments on the experience of the poor guy who started this thread.

[SanChong]

I fully agree with Clark that it is not advisable to try and find work in Taiwan without a degree. While it is possible, you will CLEARLY be working illegally. There is a lot of significant danger in this and even if you can find a job, you will have substantially less job security and will be making constant visa runs. This is not analogous to teaching Kindergarten (WITH an ARC), which is an entirely different (and less substantial, in my opinion) risk. Finding work without a degree is just not a situation which most people would be happy in.

This isn't an entirely accurate analogy, but it's not far from the truth and it's more true everyday as the teaching market in Taiwan becomes more organized and legitimate all the time: Would you feel comfortable trying to get a teaching job at a school in your home country without a degree?
Doing so in Taiwan would be a similar choice.

As for a College Degree + TESOL/TEFL/CELTA, it is possible to legally teach in Taiwan with this combination. Unfortunately, the government doesn't publish a listing of the Colleges they accept. This is very frustrating, particularly for S. Africans (for whom much fewer schools are recognized). It's usually possible through using the right channels to find out BEFORE you arrive in Taiwan whether or not it is possible to legally work here.

Look to http://buxiban.com for such reputable employers.

Reach To Teach at http://ReachToTeachRecruiting.com is also a very reputable Human Resource firm which places teachers throughout Taiwan.

[Miyazaki]

STOP!

It is possible to teach EFL in Taiwan without a degree.

All one needs is a diploma to teach EFL legally.

This alone will get you your ARC/Work Permit.

You are lying to anyone here who is asking if they can teach EFL in Taiwan without a degree.

Stop it!

[Serious_Fun]

deleted

[clark.w.griswald]

[Miyazaki]

[SanChong]

Miyazaki:

Where are you getting this information from!!??
I'm now becoming slightly entertained by this conversation.
I feel like there is someone in the room yelling, "The world is flat, the world is flat!!" while everyone else knows it is round (and I'm not talking about the new Thomas Friedman book- great book by the way).

You CANNOT teach in Taiwan with less than a 4 year degree/diploma (or the equivalent). OR, you can have a 2 year diploma + TEFL/CELTA/TESOl.

Miyazaki, I invite you to apply to Hess, Kid Castle, Shane, Gram or Kojen with the qualifications you claim are enough. EVERY ONE OF THOSE SCHOOLS WILL REJECT YOU. Why? Becuase they can't legally employ you!!

In fact, last year a number of S. Africans felt this issue particularly acutely. The government decided to pull their recognition of a number of S. African Universities and Colleges. People who were already legally working in Taiwan were not able to continue. It was very sad and unfair to many of these people. This illustrates the complexity of the issue.
Miyazaki, I'm just letting you know this is the law of this country...

If you are unsure about the status of your degree/diploma, and are considering a move to teach in Taiwan, it would be well worth it to CHECK the status of your degree BEFORE you arrive in Taiwan!!

[clark.w.griswald]

"You're wrong!"

"No, you're wrong!"

"No, you're wrong. No returns!!!!"

Bit childish don't you think Miyazaki.

[Ki]

Clark,

Why can't you see? Everything a priori is valid. Isn't it fact enough that I said it was true?