Job Discussion Forums

[spark808]

Hello,

If this question has been asked a million times before maybe someone can refer me to a link. I plan to travel to Japan in the next year or so and I plan on taking my boyfriend with me. Ive heard mixed things on how easy it is to get an apartment and live together unmarried in Japan and Ive also heard mixed things on whether or not he can get a working visa without a Uni degree. He will probably get a TEFL cert. Can someone set me straight on these things? I do not plan on going with Jet/Aeon or any one of those other places. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[PAULH]

Spark
You dont say what country you are from.

Americans need a university degree if they want to get a work visa, as this is issued by immigration and the degree is a work visa requirement.

If you are under 30 and come from Canada, New Zealand, UK or Australia and you are under 30 you can come on a 6 month working holiday visa.
When you ask someone whether or not you can get a visa, it depends on who you talk to and which country they come from, as each situation is different but the facts as they are stated above are not.

In the larger cities living together is no big deal, especially regarding foreigners but if you are in smaller cities or rural areas, people tend to be more conservative and will tend to gossip. They will make it their business to know about your private life outside work hours, as you may a mini-celebrity becuase of your foreign status.

Some conversation schools do not rent apartments to couples, even married couples with one of the partners working, so you may have to shop around for your own accomodation.

[spark808]

Okay, I am from Canada so that is a bit more promising than originally anticipated. I am willing to shop around for accommodation but I do plan to attempt to work in the countryside, so I guess I'll have to see....

thanks!

[PAULH]

I also want to mention that theoretically your boyfriend could stay in Japan for up to a year as that is how long the WHV is for. If he wants to stay in Japan after a year he will need a degree to get a sponsored work visa. His only other choice if you have long term plans here is a dependents visa for him, but you would need to get married first for that to happen.

With no degree his options long term look rather dim, I'm afraid.

[spark808]

hmm..well thats quite a bit more dissapointing, as we did have plans to stay there, if all was going well, for a few years....im a bit naive on the whole visa situation, so excuse me if these are totally stupid questions but are there any other options after the six month/one year whv period? what about leaving the country to say another neighbouring country and re-entering? is there any possibility of a visitors visa? or what if he secures a job that isnt degree dependent?

[PAULH]

[Glenski]

Paul is providing excellent advice, as always. Let me add a couple things.

Finding an apartment on your own in Japan will be extremely difficult. You need an employer to serve as guarantor in the majority of cases. They will also (usually) pay the key money deposit you need to get in. Leo Palace has recently advertised a lot as a rental place that doesn't require such deposit, but from what I've heard, you still have to pay the entire period's rent. That is, if you plan to stay 3 months, you pay all 3 months' rent up front. Can anyone confirm this?

Second, you do not need to leave the country to convert a tourist visa to work visa. This has recently changed. Of course, some immigration offices may not choose to go along with this (I have heard that it is true only in the Tokyo area, for example), so you'd better count on having enough money to fly yourself out and back.

Third, your boyfriend doesn't have to land a job that requires a degree. Some teaching jobs don't. And, the WHV certainly doesn't require it.

Fourth, (ok, so this is not "a couple of things") if you (alone or with him) come without a job in hand, do not say you are looking for work when you hit customs. Plus, you need a lot of money in hand to survive (US$4000 or more) while you look for work.

[JimDunlop2]

I will speak from recent personal experience...

1. Working Holiday Visa = good

2. Working visa w/o a degree = extremely unlikely these days (even though Japanese laws depend on the phase of the moon and the overall mood of the immigration staff on any given day) The official answer is "no" although I've heard of the odd exception. The Japanese consular official explained it this way: "The company that sponsors your visa needs to prove to the government that they need to hire you because you possess a skill or talent that could not be filled by a Japanese citizen. In order to do that, they need a degree."

3. $4000 USD starting money = necessary

4. Getting an appartment = almost impossible w/o help... i.e. unless you speak fluent enough Japanese, as the realty agency likely not at all.

5. Get your school to help you track down an apartment. They know the standards, the area, and the prices etc... better than you will

6. Until you have a job/apt. Backpackers' hotels or gaijin houses are good places to stay. About as cheap as you can find w/o going to a hostel.

7. TEFL certificate w/o uni degree = worthless (in the eyes of Japanese immigration officials -- officially speaking, of course)

8. Difficulty of living together unmarried in Japan = not very. Unless you advertise this fact to people, no one will ask. If they do and you say you're married, no one will question you (or ask you to produce your marriage certificate).

9. JET= good

10. Aeon = bad

Otherwise, I think the others have covered all the basics....

[spark808]

PaulH-youre help is really appreciated, even if you have a pretty harsh way of explaining things-i didnt say that my boyfriend has no skills or qualifications, i said he doesn't have a degree, i realize that in the eyes of the gov't this might as well be as good as nothing, but judging from what
Jimdunlop2 said in #2 there are exceptions, however slim, which is at least a bit more hopeful...

as for your last comment, actually, in canada its pretty easy to stick around for quite some time even if you do not speak a lot of english, i have a friend from korea who was here for the better part of 2 years, working multiple jobs with an apartment, on various types of visas, so im not sure if you can really compare the two. but i see what youre getting at, they want people with skills that can contribute to the economy...

It seems like between the posts there are quite a few contradictions, he needs a degree/he doesnt, we can get an apt together/we cant...i guess we'll see....

finally, i do plan on having a job with accommodation lined up before i leave, so i definately will find out if we can live together before i accept the position...it definately sounds like the more affordable, smarter way to go about things...

thanks for all the advice, i do still have a bit of time to plan...

[JimDunlop2]

Congratulations, Spark808... You've come across a basic truth about Japan that sometimes people take a long time to realize..... Everything around here is to some degree, a contradiction.

It's frustrating, but especially when it comes to official/legal/immigration matters, but even if you ask someone a seemingly basic question, there are no solid answers. Even Japanese nationals have a hard time knowing the answers.... I've quite often been told: "No, we don't have that here." and then found out the contrary for myself.

The key phrase in coming to Japan (one which will unilaterally determine your degree of success here) is your ability to adapt to the Japanese philosophy of "shigata ga nai" which, if translated means something like: What could you have done? Nothing. The spirit of the phrase may sound defeatist: you can't fight city hall, but like I said, because there ARE no black and white answers, there may be some back doors open to you that you haven't considered.... Our own visa situation for instance (too long & complex to get into on the forum) or something as simple as buying a cell phone.

It took us 3 major stores in Akihabara to figure out the ins and outs of getting a cell phone in this country. And not once did we get a straight answer....

E.g. We asked three different salespeople -- all Japanese of course (not foreigners): What do I need to get a cell phone?

Answer 1: a gaijin card and a credit card
Answer 2: actually, only a credit card and passport are enough
Answer 3: It is very difficult for foreigners to get a Japanese cell phone

In the end, we never DID find out the complete truth about the matter. I suspect it was somewhere in between answer 1 and 2, that certain companies MAY NOT require a gaijin card if you pay directly off your credit card and use your passport as ID, but we didn't find out until later that you MUST have a valid mailing address (for the bills of course) that is inside Japan.

SO.... After an entire DAY of trying to get that sorted out, we shrugged our shoulders, said "shigata ga nai" and purchased a pre-paid cell phone... They wanted a mailing address too, but I got smart, said "just one sec" and pulled out a random hotel phone address from a directory and gave it to them. They were satisfied, and no one has ever asked any other questions.

My point in the long, rambling posting? Don't get too discouraged... In many instances there is a "back door" even when you get a polite refusal in the beginning.

Gambatte! (Good luck!)

[spark808]

thats a pretty funny story, and i feel a lot better for reading it, thank you...i was starting to feel pretty shitty about the whole situation...basically ill go there, do what i can, stay there for as long as i can, and take each thing as it comes, the worst that can happen: i have to leave...its not an option to leave him behind heh, so with a lot of patience and perseverence, im sure we'll be fine...thanks

[PAULH]

[ruggedtoast]

If you want to live together in tokyo or osaka it is easy to get a place to live as there are lots of agencies catering to foreigners needing short term (a year or less) lets.

try googling J and F plaza and Sakura house or Tokyo Apartment to name but a few. I recommend you try and stay in a gaijin house at first and then look for somwhere else when youre here.

These places are pricier than what a Japanese will pay for the same thing but usually incluse bills, come furnished and dont have the infamous key money and agency fees so may work out a lot less hassle and money if youre not staying in one place for long.

Outside of the main urban and tourist conurbations I imagine you would have to get your employer to get you an aprtment as they wont speak english at the letting agency and many japanese landlords have a morbid fear of foreigners wearing shoes on the tatami, setting fire to the kitchen with our foreign cooking practices ,doing unspeakable things in the bathroom and blasting out the neighbours with all night raves, so wont rent to us anyway.

Your boyfriend will have to apply for a WHV in his country of origin, can extend it to one year and may possibly be able to convert it into a normal working visa with an employers sponsorship even without a degree.

[spark808]

i cannot believe my $hitty just got "beeped" out.

[homersimpson]