Job Discussion Forums

[EnglishBrian]

I realise a couple of threads have been running in the direction of this topic but wanted to ask a specificish question about this.

I've read here and on the job information journal over the last couple of years that teaching the military is a nightmare. From my own position I'm thinking particularly with regard to BAe Systems/SDT (get that in the right order), but any thoughts people have more generally might well help me out too.

I'm wondering how the 'nightmare' really manifests itself in terms of day to day teaching. It's sometimes hard to tell how far posters on Dave's are refering to petty internal politics and how far they really have legitimate points that apply generally and should be taken seriously. I know we're talking conscripts here. Now I've taught spoilt and uninterested teenages before so I'm not completely naive, but in practice what would I be expecting? Some posts comment on how badly you're treated. How does that show itself?

Any info on this would be really useful guys as I'm starting to have doubts/concerns.

Thanks

[Sea Sea Rider]

It doesn't seem like only yesterday because it's been six years since I taught for nearly three years on a BAe sub-contract, teaching Saudi enlisted sailors.

An attempt to give you a straight answer would be like trying to find a direct route out the maze of streets and alleys in a Riyadh suburb.

First consider how some students and officers in charge may feel about you at first site; check out some Quranic passages regarding non-Muslims:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html (the same site is an equal opportunity skeptic's site which takes the Bible among other texts to task for intolerence).

On the other hand, the Quran also includes a fair amount of passages which you can find in any online Quranic concordance using a simple Google or Booelian search. You can find passages which remind Muslims to overlook differences and to forgive the unbelievers because magnanimity, generosity, charity, compassion and forgiveness pleases God the most.

(Even the Ten Commandments has a few loopholes)

Further, consider that many of your military enlisted students did not finish secondary school, have never read a book, haven't even read much of the Quran-only had it read and interpreted for them, haven't travelled far from their villages much less to the big city and beyond (abroad), have never logged onto a computer, have had no access to anything other than local TV programmes which rarely have anything other than religious authorities droning on and on about the perfections of the Quran and Saudi society as a whole.

Military teaching is a whole other ballgame.

You may have students and/or officers-in-charge who tend to overlook those bleeding heart verses while there will be others who practise them daily--similar to on-your-right y'gotcher fire and brimstone Christians and on-your-left you gotcher turn-the-other cheek Christians.

Unfortunately, one obnoxious, intolerant student or officer who feels that he might go to Gehenna if he cuts an infidel a little slack can make your life in Kingdom Gehenna on earth.

Now, as for the classroom itself, my experience and memory is filled with contradictions.

There is "Student Type A" who could take eight good weeks out of my life because I would obsess on measures, counter-measures and counter-counter measures (good cop/bad cop/indifferent cop) to deal with this inhumane behavioural type which seemed at times to be so reprehensible and loathesome that it could turn my profession as well as life in the Kingdom into complete gloom and hopelessness. Adding fuel to the fire, often other students aped the misbehaving one so that the entire class would become completely ungovernable. Your reputation for being unable to deal with the Type A brat spreads quickly.

Then again, I can recall "Student Type B": a gentleman and a gentle man, soft-spoken, eager to learn, respectful of others, honest, what you might call "good people"--AND a credit to his faith and creed.

Learn to cope with Type A without having your tyres slashed or life threatened, without losing sleep or without becoming a full blown sid-aholic and you might complete a contract.

Now, my worst experiences fall under classroom management, and again, I am making generalisations based on my experience.

For example:
Coming to class on time.

I recall nearly every class, every hour of every day having a few who wandered in five to ten minutes late. If there was a warrant officer, a major or colonel in charge (OIC) who looked after his teaching staff, then the student would shoulder the blame; however, this sometimes created backlash when dealing with students who come from a culture where their manhood, their fathers' and grandfathers' manhood all require acts of vengeance and retaliation if shame is brought upon the surnames or tribal names.


Dismissing class early:
Some warrant officers or sergeants apparently have one military occupational specialty which is to guarantee that a class is not dismissed until the bell rings--not one second before.

Student Apathy
The incidents in which the teacher, not the student, may be faulted weren't limited to a student not showing up on time or leaving early.

A teacher can make a dismissal hit list if his students do not bring pencils or books to class or if his students keep nodding off in class despite a teacher's best efforts to keep the student conscious, if his students get out of their seats and go a'wandering aimlessly, clueslessly around the classroom or if students leave the room to 'ava slash (usually to 'ava smoke), or if the students converse openly and loudly during a lesson (again despite repeated warnings). . .all classroom management issues of this nature more often than not become the teacher's responsibility.

Now consider this: when a teacher is under pressure to complete a certain number of units before a test and the time needed to teach is wasted making feable attempts to manage the classroom, you are in a lose/lose situation.
Take a stab at guessing who is to blame if a class doesn't achieve satisfactory marks on a test.

I hope this gives you a somewhat clearer picture of teaching military in the Gulf and especially in the Kingdom.

[Paul in Saudi]

I have been teaching the military for a decade now. I like it, that is why I do it.

Frankly, I cannot see why anyone would want to work of a school where students are paying your salary, where you have some screwy owner to deal with and work in the evenings. I do not find teaching the military here to be a nightmare, not at all.

[Sea Sea Rider]

Institutes anywhere can be rough as well. I'm sticking with government universities--that's what I do. That's what I recommend.

[darkside1]

From what I've seen in Saudi BAe have one of the best set- ups, if not the best set- up: great financial package and quality facilities on their compounds. You have to be prepared to get your head round living in a military environment though, and that's not for everyone.

If your main goal is financial, then go for it. I have had to put up with as much grief in other situations (e.g. supply teaching in inner- London 5 years ago) for a LOT less money.

Had I not landed a job working with disabled kids in a smashing school and getting sponsored through a master's programme by my employer I dare say I would be working in KSA with BAe or something similar, and there's nothing wrong with that, despite what you may sometimes read on this forum.

[EnglishBrian]

Thanks everyone for some really useful comments. Just wondering Sea Sea Rider - sounds like there could be a large question mark constantly hanging over your tenure in these jobs? That concerns me.

[Sea Sea Rider]

Three years on one job is the longest I lasted. If you accept a military job, be concerned with classroom manmagement. The teaching itself is not unendurable.

[scot47]

Military jobs can pay well but.......................

With any job in KSA never plan further than your next pay check.

The guys who go crazy or screw up are the ones who say " I will stay here for 10 years and save 5 zillion interstellar credits." It does not work that way.

Nice story I heard about the early days of BAe when it was still Airworks.
When you arrived they gave you two buckets - one for ordure and one for money. When one of the buckets was full, you had to leave.

[dmb]

I heard the same story in Qatar. I think it must me the same for the whole of the Gulf.