Job Discussion Forums

[shoosh]

Hey everyone. My first post here

I got my Global TESOL cert. 2 years ago now. I was ready to go abroad back then but I chickended out I think it was because I didn't know where to start. Now I feel the need to get motivated and start looking for a position and I was wondering if anyone could lend some advice.

I would like to ask everyone why they chose the places they did. My mainproblem is I need to decide where to go. I wanted to go to Dubai but after reading some of the contracts I see they want experienced people. I am fairly new to teaching with virtually no teaching experience. My experience is training staff at previous jobs and I did some part time tutoring with ESL students before. Teaching is something I do want to try to see if I like it. I have a BA in kinesiology from university. Places I am considering going to are somewhere in China, Korea, Dubai, Taiwan. Dubai is just a place I REALLY want to see, and the other choices is because they sound really easy to get a good job and make some decent money there.

Here is basically what I am looking for (I will try to be as complete as possible because everyone's interests are different):
-somewhere safe
-like to get a decent position in a school who won't just abandon me or try to screw me over - i would need to know how to use my degree to my advantage when barganing
-not looking or expecting to get rich but making enough money to survive comfortably over there and maybe bring a bit of cash back home.
-a place where there are many other English-speaking teachers that I could meet and hang out with
-nice living conditions - nice doesn't have to mean spacious! Just so long as I'm not living in a closet! A dorm room sized place would be fine but I wouldn't want a place that's kinda run-down and falling apart

Basically I'm just asking what's the first step in making your decision on where to go? Where do you get information on what it's like to teach in these countries? Should I look for which places offer the most interesting contracts and narrow it down that way? Once I decide on a place then I can start getting more and more detail. The hard part for me is getting started.

I appreciate any help from all of you. A decision like this is not easy and I'm extremely nervous about it. At the same time I know I can't stay where I am forever and I need to do something fast! In the meantime I will continue reading more info here. Thanks

[tedkarma]

Korea and Taiwan are pretty good for newbies. Korea is a bit famous for jacking you around - something you seem to want to avoid. However, good research and asking about specific jobs and schools could help avoid that. Shabby housing is often a problem in Korea - but it is not unusual to save up to US$1000. per month there.

Taiwan would allow you to save a little less as you'll usually have to rent and pay for your own place - but avoiding the crappy housing issue. You could still save some serious money in Taiwan - probably in the area of US$600-800 per month.

Yes, almost anywhere in the Middle East will require experience - and YOU WILL NEED IT THERE. The students AND the culture are difficult - at best.

China pays poorly - you'll just get by - but China tends to require fewer working hours and less in the way of credentials.

How to get started? Dive in there and apply - ask a lot of questions - avoid places that don't answer them. Do some research, ask to speak to current and past teachers.

Take a chance - jump in. It is only your first job - next year you can do even better.

[shoosh]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm probably going to be considering Korea and Taiwan more. They sound like the best options. How do you avoid the shabby housing issue though? I've heard some places send you pictures of rooms that look nice but when people get there they find it's not like what they were showed.

As for the middle east... what do you mean by the culture being different? If you're speaking of just the lifestyle and culture itself I'm not too worried about that. I've known arabs and kurds all my life (my dad is from Baghdad). I think it would be less of a culture-shock for me but if you mean something else then maybe I misunderstood.

What happens when you go to a place after you've made a deal with the school and everything, then you just end up hating it there (eithe because you're homesick and teaching is not what you thought it would be or the place you're at just isn't what you were lead to believe)? Can you just break the contract and go work somewhere else? This one guy I know told me one of his friends just didn't show up for work one day and he actually just left the country because the school was screwing him around. Can you get away with that?

I guess what worries me is that if I end up making a deal, and then find out it's not what I was lead to believe can I escape out of it?

[JDYoung]

Leaving before a contract is up is not a good idea unless all of the contract has been broken and attempts to resolve it have proved fruitless. If you leave because you're homesick or teaching is not what you thought it would be then gee, that's too bad. Culture and language misunderstandings can also cause some "lead to believe" problems too. For example, in China you may be told that there is a holiday from May 1 to May 5. You would probably think that classes those days are cancelled. You would be partly right. Technically the legal holiday is May 1 to 3. Most schools will not have classes on May 4 and 5 but in many you would be required to make up the time on the previous Saturday and Sunday. If you ask "Why wasn't I told?" the answer will be "You didn't ask."

Should your employer and your students pay for your problems? If by "getting away with it" you mean you will avoid being arrested and thrown in a dark pit for the rest of your natural life then you probably can get away with it but you'll do your own reputation and the reputation of others no good at all. You will also incur the anger of your fellow teachers who will be stuck covering your classes.

If you can't tough out some rough spots, then don't get into this field.

[Super Frank]

Can that sort of money be earned in Korea? I had no idea. The big question..... do you need a degree??

[tedkarma]

[Gordon]

Let's not count out Japan. I know the OP didn't mention Japan, but I think Japan is more a sure thing than Korea as far as unscrupulous employers. You will probably save more in Korea, but Japan tends to have a better quality of life and I think would be an easier place to break into this field. I have taught in both countries, by the way. Some of your questions might be answered at this site below. Ted's sites are good too.

[snorklequeen]

Gordon, you wrote: "Let's not count out Japan. I know the OP didn't mention Japan, but I think Japan is more a sure thing than Korea as far as unscrupulous employers."

you're saying that Korea has more unscrupulous employers than in Japan, right?

tks,

Queenie

[PAULH]

[Gordon]

In Korea, your employer owns your visa, you cannot quit and go somewhere else for your 1 year contract. Regardless of how bad your boss is, your only recourse is to leave the country. Even then, hopefully they won't report you or you may not be able to come back for some time.

In Japan, you own your visa and you can quit and go to another job, just like much of the free world.

You decide who would treat their teachers better.

[PAULH]

More bad news about working in Korea

http://education.guardian.co.uk/tefl/teaching/story/0,,1513001,00.html

[snorklequeen]

thanks, PAULH and Gordon,

thanks for clarifying!

cheers,

Queenie

i had no idea anyone could own someone else's visa; incredible!

[tedkarma]

I don't know that "own your visa" is the correct way to say it. In many countries, your employer "sponsors" your visa - that is pays all the expenses and makes all the arrangements. Thus, when you quit your job - your visa is cancelled. Not unusual at all.

I agree the Japanese system is better!

Korea certainly has its pitfalls - but initial set up costs are high in Japan - and minimal in Korea. Overall, I would find Korea slightly more "beginner-friendly" - much easier to quickly set up work and start saving a little money. Though I agree that there is certainly abuse of the system there.

A little research though - and Korea becomes much less risky.

[snorklequeen]

Tedkarma, thanks for your reply! Interesting info'

cheers,

Queenie

[stillnosheep]

If thinking of applying for Japan some of the big eikaiwa chains that hire from abroad are:

Aeon
ECC
Geos
Berlitz
Nova

in approximate order of how well they treat their teachers. They will pay Yen 250 000 - 265 000 pcm (Aeon also pay an accomodation subsidy worth another 20 000 or so) income tax is about 10 000 pcm. Local taxes don't really kick in until after your first year in Japan.

Employers will attempt to avoid meeting their legal obligations to pay for unemployment, pension and (proper) health insurance by only counting your teaching hours, not your preparation time, and classifying you as a less than 3/4 time employee.

Nova's health insurance scheme is a joke, except that it isn't funny for teachers who discover that they have been paying a Nova affiliated company for substandard health insurance that doesn't cover them in many cases. In such cases Nova attempt to 'back-register' the teacher into the proper national scheme, thus defrauding the taxpayers of Japan by only insuring those teachers who need expensive treatment, and not the rest.