Job Discussion Forums

MrCAPiTUL · Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Posts: 232 Location: Taipei, Taiwan

I've seen a lot of people recently chatting about how that is a decent starting salary. I'm just curious as to why you feel that way?

That is US$2137 gross, per month; $25,641 annually. You can't really live on that in America, so I'm thinking that must be a bitch of a time in Japan. Quite honestly, unless I find a good job at a real school, I think Japan might have to wait. I have a hard enough time staying above water here in the States as a teacher. To break even in Japan, I'd have to earn at LEAST 325,000 en a month. And that would be IF costs-of-living were equal.

You know, when my friend's mother was visiting from Nagoya and talking with me about Japan, something she said stuck out. She said, "The people who come to Japan are the people who have problems making it in their own country. The poor people. So, to them, Japan is great." She also said that, if you REALLY want a good job in Japan, you have to learn the language well, and then you'll have a much easier time and make more money. Perhaps that is why she was trying to get me to go on a student visa to learn the language.

Note to people: don't be bottom feeders. The ball is in your court. Japan wants English teachers and doesn't have the native population or the trained population to do the job. It is disappointing to see people think so little of themselves. My advice, get a job in your home country using your degree and go to Japan when you get a worthwhile offer. *Note, i was nearly lured into the web, as well. Be strong.

angrysoba · Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 446 Location: Kansai, Japan

Mr Capitul:

Hoser · Joined: 19 Mar 2005 Posts: 694 Location: Toronto, Canada

I'm always curious as to this 250,000 yen salary. What does that mean exactly? Because the starting salary of a new NOVA teacher (at least the ones who were hired before NOVA changed the hours offered) is 210,000 a month. But once you add in all the extra perks each month, it comes out to about 275,000-280,000 per month. So am I making 40,000 less than the average or am I making 40,000 more?

canuck · Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 1921 Location: Japan

womblingfree · Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 826

MrCAPiTUL · Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Posts: 232 Location: Taipei, Taiwan

Well, I expected to see some criticism from this post. Welcome.

I used to live in NY (the Bronx) and I am currently living in FL, Tampa Metro area. The cost of a decent 1BR apt is around the $600 mark, no utlities included. Average housing price, about $170,000.

The average teaching salary in FL is around $34,000 annually for new hires, $38,000 for the entire teaching workforce.

As for time off: I get every federal holiday off, teacher planning day 4 times a year, 2 week winter break, 1 week spring break, and a little over 2 months for summer break. Yes, that is one of the good perks about teaching in the US.

Not too mention, I have free health care, low cost dental care insurance and vision care. Guaranteed pension plan and mandatory life insurance (which is free for the first $75,000).

Taxes are definitely more expensive here, I will say that much.

Having said that: $34,000 per year is NOT a lot of money! After taxes and bills, you'll have maybe $500 per month for yourself. If you take out for 401k or investments, you are easily breaking even and not having much of a life. If you have kids on a single income, you are in an increasingly delicate situation.

Compare that to Japan. Unless you take a tremendous lifestyle hit, I don't see how it can work in "the most expensive country in the world." I notice most people say they supplement their work with privates. This varifies my point. If 250,000 en is so great, why do you need extra work?

325,000 en at 118 exchange rate yields: 2754 per month, gross, or 33,050 per year. Ask anybody here in America if that is a good salary for a college graduate, most will tell you - no. not really.

Here is something to consider: the average bank will grant 3 times your salary for the price of a house. 3 x 33050 = (ROUGHLY) 100,000. Now, with great credit you may get slightly more. If the average house is 170,000 in this area (again, this is a fairly inexpensive metro area), how do you do it on a single, 33,050 salary? Factually - YOU DONT!

Canuck - I did not say people can't make it in their country. Matter-of-fact, I said that people should work in their own country until they get better offeres. Regarding people not making it, That is what my friend's mother said about MOST people who go to Japan (and SHE herself is Japanese). Of course that doesn't apply to everybody from the ENTIRE population. There are always exceptions. Come on now. . .

This kind of stemmed from an earlier post, where I asked what most people do for their future retirement. Scarily, not too many people responded. Those that did, all kind of said the same thing - people AREN'T preparing for their future retirement. This is disturbing, to me.

. . . . I should become a Worker's Advocate. . . Very Happy

ejectseat · Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 21 Location: Fukuoka, Japan

It's nice you feel that people may be worth more, and I respect that sentiment.

However, a service is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

If they are able to attract future employees with that kind of money then perhaps it is possible to live off those wages?

Since surviving Hurricane Katrina I have downsized considerably, and am eager to keep traveling while things in my life are simple. I was approached my a recuiting company (footprints) to teach in China, and thus lead me to pursuing a career in Japan. The benefits of living in a foreign land are certainly far more rewarding than any monetary amount that could be offered. What the hell do I know?

I'm a broke college graduate. I may as well be broke somewhere that is possibly interesting, rewarding, and completely unexplored. Ahh, sweet uncertainty.

As far as Japan being the most expensive country in the world, I somehow doubt it. According to tokyopricecheck.com (not sure of its validity) the prices are not very outrageous. I've seen NYC prices double some of those in Tokyo after converting.

It all comes back to lifestyle. Keep it simple.

JezzaYouBeauty!! · Joined: 01 Nov 2004 Posts: 86

Yes, Japan and salaries and ease of finding work, and things.

I found it easy to get jobs, but I live in an unusual place. City of a million people......but still......it is an unknown, crappy city - Kitakyushu.

So there are jobs here. Supply & Demand. That actually works well, for the newbie teacher newly arrived in this 'nothing' city that I live in.

After 2 years in Korea and Japan, I am about to go back home for a break. Possibly permanent break. Possibly as a stop-off on the way to somewhere else........who knows?

I went to Korea, basically as a non-experienced English teacher, with just a university degree and a teaching certificate. In Korea, I went out 2 nights a week, eating and drinking all night, for a year. And I was happy to just spend quite a bit..........Never had to worry about my money.

And I still saved up 25 grand Aussie, after just one year. For the newbie, who doesn't know Japanese, with just a Bachelor degree, still contemplating coming to Japan for the 250,000 yen gig.......I am seriously wondering why you would do it?

I had to come to Japan, cos of my wife. And I am leaving in a months time, from now. And she is not sure if we should live here longer....or in Australia, or another city in Japan or wherever. And no matter what, I'll only come back if I think it is good for me....at least in some way.

My wife said to me the other day, "if we were to divorce, my family would just think, 'Baka gaijin, Baka gaijin!!' "

So.......hoooooooo!!!........hmmmmm!!!!.....................The 'Gaijin Complex'.........hmm!!!!

........why on earth would ya wanna come into that kind of culture for 250,000 yen a month!!!!!!!!!!!???? (unless MAYBE you have a masters degree, and know japanese fluently, etc.)............

Stay away, brother. Be happy in life.

-Jezza

womblingfree · Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 826

MrCapitul, you are not comparing like for like.

You seem to be comparing the salary of a qualified professional teacher in New York with that of a non-qualified teachers starting salary in Japan.

If you are a qualified language teacher then you can earn far higher salaries than 250,000 yen. The point is that almost no teachers in Japan are. If you personally have a teaching license in a subject which is not TEFL, then your best bet would be to apply for an international school where salaries are often double that of eikaiwas. But if you have no experience teaching abroad you will find it difficult to get hired.

You can save $1,000 dollars a month in Japan on a fairly low salary because of low taxes and extras. If you are just interested in the money, and can save more than that in that US then stay where you are.

You should work out exactly how much of your money goes on local and federal taxes, travel and how much you spend on health insurance before you can accurately compare a basic salary in Japan to a professional salary in the US.

The mistake people make is simply to do a straight conversion between yen and dollars, it's a completely innacurate way to analyse the financial differences.

You can get a very decent apartment in the centre of Tokyo from between $600 and $800 at the low end of the scale. Outside of Tokyo you are looking at around $400.

MrCAPiTUL · Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Posts: 232 Location: Taipei, Taiwan

Wombling, I can respect what you say, and perhaps that is the crux of the problem. I view myself as a professional teacher here in the States, and if I go to Japan, I will continue to view myself as a professional teacher. Maybe, people ARENT viewing what they do as professional, which undermines their efforts. Why spend four years in college just to get a job! You go to college to become a professional.

I guess what I'm saying is, perhaps people should bide their time, teach in their home country, and move when the offer is more lucrative. Or, perhaps, I've just recently realized that most people aren't looking at this as a long term PROFESSION and that's taking a toll on the system.

womblingfree · Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 826

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Let's get some things straight. You are trying to compare teaching English conversation (eikaiwa work) with what exactly? Sounds like you are a teacher in a high school in Florida. Please clarify that for one.

If that is so, you cannot possibly compare with eikaiwa teachers in Japan. The requirements are so much different that it is a matter of apples and oranges. All that's needed here is a bachelor's degree in any subject (and with certain visas, even that is not necessary).

Number two, your Japanese friend has her own opinion, of course, but why would you enter it into this thread if it doesn't even agree with yours? To say"The people who come to Japan are the people who have problems making it in their own country. The poor people. " is so narrow-minded. Her other statement about learning Japanese is more valid, but that is another point of discussion, since you started this with the focus being on living on 250,000 yen/month, not on getting a better salary.

womblingfree · Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 826

moot point · Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 441

Just to give this speculative thread on livable salaries some perspective:

"In 2004, the monthly average of total cash earnings for regular employees (in establishments with five or more employees) was 333,000 yen. This total amount includes 272,000 yen in "contractual earnings" (which include "scheduled cash earnings" plus "overtime pay" for working overtime, on holidays and late at night, as well as other allowances), and 61,000 yen in "special earnings" (which include summer and year-end bonuses, payments to celebrate employee's marriage, etc.)."
Source: Ministry of Health Labour and Welfare
http://www.stat.go.jp/english/data/handbook/c12cont.htm#cha12_2

moot point · Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 441

With regards to family incomes:
"In 2004, average monthly income per worker's household was 530,028 yen (in a worker's household with two or more persons, the head of household was employed by a corporation, factory, store, government office or school; the average worker's household had 3.48 persons; and the average age of the head of household was 46.4 years)...Of the income, more than 80 percent was represented by the income of the household head."

And in terms of living expenses (for a family):
"330,836 yen was used for living expenses (consumption expenditure), such as food and housing expenses, while the remainder (surplus), totaling 114,129 yen, was applied to savings, life insurance premiums and repaying debts such as housing loans."

http://www.stat.go.jp/english/data/handbook/c13cont.htm