Job Discussion Forums

[kingkristopher]

Hi Everyone,

I'm a longtime lurker here but this is my first post. I've recently been offered a senior teacher position with EF English First in Guiyang, China. I'm posting to ask if anyone has any info that would be helpful in making up my mind.

I've heard mixed reviews of EF, that some schools are great while others are not. I'm just wondering if anyone can help me out on this. This will be my first foray into China, I am an experienced ESL teacher and administrator but thus far all of my experience has been in Canada and Latin America. I'm interested in knowing about the working environment at EF and in China in general.

I have been offered a salary of 7000 CNY (rising to 7500 after 6 mos) plus accomodation and airfare. Is this a standard deal? Am I making out well or getting the shaft? From what I have researched it looks pretty good but I need to account for the fact that I also have a wife and a small baby to support (my wife will not be working). Can a family of three survive on this wage? I'm not looking to make out like a bandit, but I do need at least a modicum of security for my family...

Anyway, any help here would be much appreciated. If anyone ever needs a hand with info on Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Panama or (to a lesser extent) the rest of Latin America, please drop me a line.

Saludos

[vikdk]

for someone of your qualifications then 100/hour should be min - and if a big company like EF cant pay that for their senior teacher then something smells a little fishy. Remember there are non qualified teachers out here who are no non native speakers who can earn over the 100 in bog standard positions. Then again they've been out here for a while - speak a bit of mandarin - have good contacts - so on the other hand some would say 7000/month would be an ok sallary for your first job - and the kind of pay that can support a family in a reasonable way. If money was your goal then you could go for that with your next job.

By the way the 100/hour should with the hours you would do in EF put you in the 10,000 bracket no probs.

[Roger]

Vikdk is sadly out of touch with reality - as always! First thing: EF can pay more than 100 an hour - but in your case, they are offering a fixed monthly salary, so you can safely ignore vikdk's "advice".

Secondly, Guiyang is in the relatively charming SW of China - it's also highly underdeveloped and such a salary goes a long way over there! In nearby Kunming, for example. most teachers make under 4000, even below 3000 (in public schools)!

[vikdk]

yeah king its safe to ignore my advice - I wont bite yur ankles..yap yap

If I had a kid i think a relatively unpolluted environment would be wonderfull - maybe yunnan or somewhere by the coast would be a much better Idea than the big buck.

[kingkristopher]

Thanks for your input guys, I'm definitely leaning towards taking the position. Money isn't the biggest factor for me, I just don't want to undervalue myself (or others).

Another question, I've heard mixed reports on racism in China. Do you think it will matter that I am of mixed caucasian and negroe heritage? It has never been an obstacle in Latin America, though I do get some incredulous looks when I tell people that I am Canadian.

[Roger]

[vikdk]

all loawai here can expect staring fits from the locals - and i've no doubt that nergroes have to endure more of that than most of us - but its your kid you should worry about, not because of its race but because of a Chinese fixation with touching and staring at foreign children - this tendency will of course be intensified the more people there are, and a trip to crowded city park can turn into a bit of a nightmare for more sensetive children.
On a professional basis, race may be a factor in wage negotiation with your bosses - and however odious this may sound - they consider a pailer skin to be a more sellable product!!! But I'm sure china is growing up with regard to racial matters - if very slowly - but to find really what its like for non white FT's here I think you should try and make contact with some of these teachers - since like anything, talking to those with first hand experience is often the best source of info.

[englishgibson]

Deleted Double Post!

[englishgibson]

Roger, you are often a kinda helpful guy on these forums and you do have quite a knowledge of cities in China I must say, but your EF knowledge does not go beyond your bathroom door with all due respect to you mate.

[Noelle]

Dear OP

It sounds like a university position might suit you more if you have a family. I really liked my experience with EF when I worked for the (for a short time) but I remember thinking... "I'm glad I'm not supporting a family". Perhaps you could find something a bit less time consuming and teach privates on the side for some extra money. My senior teacher was nearly as busy as the director. Fine for a single person maybe...

As for racism... I am in Korea now and skin color is far more of an issue here than it ever seemed to be where I was in China. In my EF school we had a mixed group of latinos, South Africans, Philippinos (spelling?) and my very own flatmate who was Indian. Sometimes I think the level of discrimination depends on how educated the people in the area are...

Anyhow, I would love to hear about your experience in South America, primarily Ecuador. Will pm about this sometime.
Back to EF China... I wish I could say I'd work for them again, but I think they place too much emphasis on money and marketing and not enough on teaching.

[7969]

for what its worth, i work with an east african. whenever we walk around together on the way to dinner, he certainly gets a lot more stares than i do, so in that respect, i'm even happier to be seen with him as i appear to be invisible. most people dont treat him with disrespect altho i've seen plenty of young kids (7-8-9 yo and up) scream and run away when they see my esteemed colleague, which, is a bit disappointing but thats the way it is here.

our college also pays my colleague slightly less than i earn but he's had no trouble getting extra work at private schools around town. he earns more than i do in fact, but i do no outside work. however to get these private jobs, he's had to resort to telling the schools he's american and he's used an american sounding name, not showing his passport and so on.

just be prepared for different reactions, depending on where you end up.

7969

[englishgibson]

I see that it's got a bit into the racial issue here. I wish I could hear from the OP again on this thread though.
Speaking of "skin color matters in China", as a Director of Studies I had an African teacher working at an EF school in China once. There were more than 10 teachers in my teachers office and some looked "unfriendly" at him at times, but the real issue is that the young Chinese students were not up for lessons with him. Worse than that their parents demanded a teacher change as well as my EF employer. I felt really embarrassed explaining to that African teacher who was by the way quite strong academically that I had to swap his classes.

[kingkristopher]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to thank you all for your advice, it has been most helpful. I am currently in contact with the DOS in Guiyang, who is now starting his second year there. I'm hoping that since he's working on his second contract, he'll have gotten the hang of it by now. I plan to pose the same questions to him that I have asked here on this board. I will advise of his answers.

As for the Racism angle, I have experienced it before in my life. There is Racism everywhere you go, it's just a matter of degrees. Fortunately, in Canada racism is not very acute. Infact, I cannot recall a single major incident in my life beyond some children teasing me in grade school (which was quickly rectified).

Here in Latin America it seems that people are at first taken aback that I am not white, as it seems that they had never considered that there might be people of other colours in Canada. But beyond that, there really isn't a push to change my classes or pay me less or anything to that extent.

I'm hoping that once I arrive in China this will be a non-issue, but I realise that this is probably naive. My question is, can or will EF void my contract or send me home for something like this. I have heard horror stories of teachers being put on the next plane back (granted that was in Korea). I have also heard (from an african-american friend) that it was a non-factor for him. That's why I'm posing this question here, I've heard mixed reviews.

I should say that I am pretty resolved to go to China. This is one of the few things that could potentially change my mind as I also have to consider the well-being of my wife and daughter (who are darker-skinned than I am). Thanks again for your feedback and especially for your candor.

Saludos

[englishgibson]

Amigo,
You are welcome and all the best to ya and your family!

Now, you know that we don't care about color of skin, but I hope you've told your prospective employer about it. Have ya?

[Super Frank]

The colour of people's skin is not an issue at EF Guiyang