Job Discussion Forums

[Turando]

Hi,

I'm wondering what would be better to do for Saudi Arabia? TESOL or Celta?
(I know Masters is the best) but in terms of a certificate which one would be better?

Thanks in advance.

[Linguist]

For some reasons, CELTA is the best of all.

[Turando]

Hi,

Thanks for your input

My plan is actually to get my Masters. However, that will take me a few years before I would complete it so I was thinking of doing a certificate in the meantime whilst I'm on holidays for something extra.

Would a CELTA be worth anything if you have your Masters? Or is it just a waste? I'm thinking for the future so I would like to be solid in my qualifications in the long run when I wish to enter into the ESL field. This is for university jobs.

Just another question - would experience that you have before getting your Masters count to employers in Saudi Arabia or is it only post-Masters experience that is looked at?

Thankyou!

[Linguist]

You�re most welcome!

If you have a BA in anything except English and Linguistics, then take the CELTA. It would make your CV look good. But, if you plan on doing your MA in Linguistics, then it would be a complete waste of time, as the MA takes precedence over the CELTA.

For your information, your salary depends not only on your MA but how related your degree is to the job you are applying. For example, an MA in Education gets slightly less than someone with an MA in Linguistics/Applied Linguistics.

With regard to experience, I think that they do not count secondary school teaching experience even if you had them in your home country. But if you worked in a language centre, then it would be counted as 1 year of experience for every two years of teaching. However, regarding this matter, things are different from workplace to workplace. I am speaking from what I have heard in mine.

[scot47]

Not as simple as Linguist says. The rule is that there are no rules. Govt institutions generally count your teaching experience if it was in some way relevant. Language Schools make their own rules.

[Shakespeare]

Hi!

This is my first time on the job forum.

On the toppic of CELTA or TESOL, I am myself now doing a Diploma in TESOL with the London Teachers Training College. So, I am just wondering how credible is it? I am currently applying for an ESL position in Saudi.

Also, I am thinking of doing an MA with UNE, Australia - a kind of distance learning MA in Linguistics. Is it recognised/acceptable worldwide?

Thanks.

[Turando]

Hi,

UNE is an accredited university in Australia and I think a number of people on this forum are actually doing their Masters through them. One of my friends in Australia is doing her Masters through UNE (non-ESL though). If you do a search, I'm pretty sure people on the forum discussed distance Masters a while ago and UNE was mentioned.

I think the only problem with having a TESOL certificate (and a Bachelors only) is that you may not get very good positions particularly the private schools seem to have a bad reputation. It seems Masters is what is required if you want the better paying jobs with better hours/conditions etc.

Hope that helps!

[Shakespeare]

Hi!

Thanks for the info. I will surely check it out!

Yes, I know that pay will not be as lucrative with a BA and a DipTESOL, but I suppose I have to make a start somewhere since an MA will take some time to complete.

Thanks.

[neo]

There are recognized EFL qualifications which have a standardised content and evaluation procedure and there are thousands of Mickey Mouse certificates and diplomas which masquerade under different names. The RSA and Trinity College (Cambridge and London Universities) are the only credible accepted industry standards. These courses were developed around the time English teachers used to spout things like "Livingstone, I presume."

Both the RSA and Trinity have entry level qualifications: CELTA and the Preparatory Cert. respectively. They do not market these courses as recipes for mastering the complexities of EFL. Rather they are designed for those considering a career in EFL, prior to their initial employment. Available to teachers after they have gained several years of experience are the DELTA and the Licentiate. Both of these are post graduate qualifications that give the holder the right to put letters after his name. Unlike MAs (particularly ones gained by distance learning) these courses are examined and involve a significant level of teaching practice and observation. In short, these courses produce solid teachers, and the high failure rate they have, is testament to this.

In contrast an MA is a purely an academic qualification which can be earned without ever setting foot in a classroom, just as a PhD in Applied Linguistics can, for that matter. These courses do provide a theoretical basis on which real teaching skills can be built by blood, sweat and tears. However, an MA really only indicates that someone has acceptable essay writing abilities, perseverance, a desire to get ahead and an expectation that employers regard MAs as top guns. It would be great if a competent EFL teacher could be produced by sitting in a bedroom for a couple of years reluctantly dipping into books that will only be read once every time the television is bad. However, to get real, that is not the case.

Over the past 10 years, the Middle and Far East have been gradually filling up with MA qualified teachers who have chosen the lazy man's method. They all do very well because employers are in the dark in these areas. But can they teach? Not any better than someone with an RSA cert. and definitely not as well as someone with an RSA diploma.

If becoming a good EFL teacher is your goal, and you would like to develop the skills that will allow you to hold your own on a professional teaching team, do an RSA cert. and then get a few years of experience under your belt before deciding on an MA or a DELTA. If you are only interested in pooling the wool over employer's eyes and getting max salary for min effort, I recommend that you buy one of the bogus MAs from the same people that sell the bogus "TESOLs". Employers in Saudi do not know the difference anyway. All you have to do is get it authenticated by the Saudi Embassy (A service supplied by the bogus MA providers) and you are laughing.

[Cleopatra]

Oh dear, someone has a Sahara-sized shoulder chip about MA holders! Wonder why?

[Sheikh Inal Ovar]

[Shakespeare]

Well, in a short space of time, a lot has been contributed by a number of forum members. It is truly excellent that ESL professionals are able to add 'meat' very quickly to a topic.

However, I have a few concerns. Firstly, neo wrote that a RSA or CELTA will equip you with the 'right' skills for teaching while an MA is placed on the periphery of the teacher training process. Well, I beg to differ because they each have their own objectives and uses. For example, in my DipTESOL class, I am the only person with teaching experience (10 years) out of 14 students! As a result, the instructor's presentation is often ineffective because all the basic concepts of teaching must be explained in detail because the majority of the class do not know what is going on! So, I end up learning virtually nothing in the class. So yes, I am only attending the class for the paper qualification, but as a skills acquisition exercise - I am losing out big time.

Contrary, in an MA programme this would not happen besause a certain amount of vetting would have been done. Also, MAs are excellent to improve a person's research and writing skills.

Thus, they both have their merits.

Lastly, I doubt whether the Saudis are that in the dark as to which MAs or TESOL diplomas are bogus and which are not. I think this is giving too little credit to the academic fraternity of Saudi Arabia.

[veiledsentiments]

[Stephen Jones]

With regard to authentification, governmenti institutions are supposed to get your degree validated by the Saudi Cultural Mission in the country it was issued in.

These check up with the university registry, and don't accept degrees from non-accredited institutions.

Now, this is a requirement of your employer, and not needed for the visa, so there are cases of people with non-accredited degrees working in Saudi.

[thrifty]

It really has been important for TEFLers working for govt. institutions that there 30 year old third class degree in medieval history plus 25 year old TEFL cert have been real.