Job Discussion Forums

[wailingtraps]

Ok first things first. I didn't come to China to make cash.Ive been here for four years, had a (mostly) great time and will be leaving here in the next year or so with no real regrets.

I work for a state middle school in Xinjiang and was happy to take the 4000RMB a month. I save about 3000RMB not because I need to but because it's rather cheap out this way.

I teach ten classes a week and the school itself has been very good to me. No complaints at all with regards to admin. However I was amazed to discover how much cash they are making from me. I knew my kids paid a little extra because they have an FT but I was amazed to discover that they pay an extra 600RMB each per year. So ten classes of fifty students meaning 500 kids@600RMB= a whopping 300,000 RMB a year. My total package if you include flights etc comes in at about 70K so there is a lot of money being made out of me and it just doesn't sit right.

Number one I assumed somebody was making a little cash on the side from me being there but I was amazed to see how much it was and how little I receive.

Number two It's so bleeding cheeky you have to admire their balls but surely they must have realised I would somehow cotton onto the whole thing and question why I was getting the thin end of the wedge. And all this after a year of people saying that I get paid way too much, how unfair it is and how the school can't really afford me.

Number three You just know that a lot of the extra cash is going into brown (red?) envelopes and that I really don't like. If I left and I knew that a year's stay here had provided enough income to really do sth then great....but I'm fairly sure that's not the case. This may be way off the mark but thats just my gut feeling.


Number four THE BIGGY...I re-upped for another year and unless things change I don't want to come back.. However I'm not really sure how to approach the admin about this.



So anyway, I just thought i'd wave this situation about and see what you people think.


Anyway not the biggest grumble in the world so i'm off for some kebabs, a cold mug of beer and a superb view of the Tianshan mountains.

best

the wailer

[Roger]

If it is your belief that you should get a proportional cut from their tuition revenue I suspect you are fooling yourself!

[China.Pete]

"I re-upped for another year and unless things change I don't want to come back." - Wailingtraps

The short answer to your immediate question is that you need to tell them there have been unforseen changes in your life (make up something good!) since you signed the renewal of your contract. Otherwise, those who follow you may not have as pleasant a time of it as you've apparently had.

As for your other questions, I'd kind of like to dodge them by saying that I don't think many of us really understand the economics of running a school. If you think you do, I would recommend that you open a language school. Only then can you really be sure you are capturing all of the costs associated with your services. What.. you don't have the capital or, in China, quanxi, etc.? Well, there you go.

I'm not putting down your contention that you may be worth quite a lot of money to your employer. Since I do not fully understand the economics of running a school, much less your school, I have to concede that it IS a possibility. Anyone who has been shopping in a Chinese department store, and priced name brand items (and I'm not necessarily talking luxury brands, here) at 2-3 times their REGULAR price in the US, will begin to suspect that China is perhaps not the best example of a perfectly competitive market in the world.

But let's try the shoe on the other foot for a different perspective. Are Chinese students who pay the full international tuition load in Australia or the UK, and thereby subsidize the programs of local coeds, as everone acknowledges, being ripped off? If so, isn't it amazing how they line up at the consulates hoping against hope for a chance to participate in this economically abusive process? Obviously, there are benefits to these prospective students that are not captured in the school's tuition and fees.

I could be cynical, here, and say that your school's administrators are just being really clever and capturing some of the value of the China experience for us westerners to increase their profit margins. But, as I said before, I don't really know enough about the economics of running a school in China to say for sure - and I doubt you do either.

[Super Frank]

Tough ti tty innit? Businesses are there to make money, profit maximization is not new. Lots of peoples jobs are there to create profit for the company and they might not get any sort of bonus or related renumeration. At least you are not picking cockles on a Yorkshire beach.

[wailingtraps]

Very good point China Pete about not making life difficult for the people who follow.


This is a state middle school and not a private business. So all this talk of business and profit-making doesnt completely apply. Sure i'm not begrudging them the chance to make some dosh out of having a FT....but I have ben told previously that for example I can't have any money for resources. I have chalk and a board and thats it....I think perhaps some of the income derived from myself could perhaps be used to help teach the students.???Is that too much to ask? Maybe a few tho out of the pot of gold????
Maybe my health insurance gets paid for...nothing unreasonable ......

[Super Frank]

We have a similar situation with the resources; no crayons, really old books, prehistoric photocopier so I sympathize with you there. My point is, we get paid an alright wage, more than a local teacher with a university education and can live comfortably well. It is clear a lot of money is made out of us but my feeling is there is nothing I can do about it, nothing bad is happening so I ignore the issue really. Don't let it leave you with a bad taste in your mouth as I'm sure your three years have been on the whole fantastic.

[wailingtraps]

Resource wise....I really only have chalk and a board...no books/photocopier/paper/you name it.......nada.......for anyone in a similar situation.....lessons from nothing....by Penny Ur is a life-saver...that and of course the web...

[kev7161]

I'm going to take the side of the OP (shocker!). If you read his post carefully, he says that the students' parents pay an EXTRA 600rmb in their tuition fees because they have a foreign teacher. The regular tuition fees should go for school overhead (such as lunch, electricity, adminstrative salaries, etc.). In my opinion, the teacher should probably get something out of that 600: a fully functional classroom with textbooks - - maybe even a laptop (on loan) so he can create and present some whiz-bang lessons and the kids are getting what their parents paid for (not saying the OP is not a good teacher, just saying making it easier on him would be nice). On top of that, if said teacher is doing a great job and getting some good feedback, why not monthly or half-year bonuses? A nice dinner out from time to time or a paid local trip somewhere? Has the teacher been given a raise in the years since he's been there? If yes, great! If no, why not?

I'm just saying that, yes of course, the school should be able to make a decent profit. That's why they are in business. But throwing even a few scraps towards not only the foreign teacher but the Chinese teachers as well, may actually build them up a little and make them WANT to be better teachers. Some don't need the financial incentive to be a good teacher, but it sure wouldn't hurt.

[sigmoid]

No one should be teaching in China for 4000 RMB. It's the world's fastest growing economy, etc, etc, blah blah blah...

If they can't pay more, then forget 'em. I'll teach somewhere else.

Don't tell me how cheap it is. I don't care, I'm not a cheap person.

Thanks for that info wailingtraps. I suspected that this was the case all along and you've helped to confirm my suspicions.

[Voldermort]

Wow, only 600 RMB a year? My students are paying an extra 4000 RMB (yes four thousand!) per semester, for the sole purpose of having a foreign lesson four times a week. This is the so called 'international class' within my school.

Works great for me, I only have a total of 120 students as opposed to thousands in a regular school. My salary is below acceptable. I earn the same as an oral English teacher as opposed to an English language teacher. But I only teach a fraction of my counterparts.

[Sinobear]

This is funny...Roger (if you weren't also a half-arsed recruiter, maybe you wouldn't be so arrogant), and China.Pete, maybe you should look at hings from another perspective.
When I was in Fujan, my school wanted me to also teach middle school students to make up the difference in my contract hours (20) and my actual teaching hours (12). I said, "Tough", because they could easily have given me 20 teaching hours, but only a limited amount of students' families were willing to cough up for the extra to pay a FT.
The deal was this, I was to teach on Saturday mornings (my contract was for Mon-Fri only) a class of 300 (!!!!!!!!!!!!) middle school students (my contract was for an elementary school). They offered me (hang on to your hats, folks!) 350 RMB for two plus hours. The school was charging the middle school students 50 RMB a session (Roger, for your benefit, 300x50=15000). Now, what's fair in this deal? I would make 2.3% of the take, despite being the one to prepare for this, it was my time, and the school was open any way. What overhead was being eaten up by this? This was not a "touchy-feely" doing good for the community ploy, it was a vehicle for the headmaster to make easy money.
Exploitation is never excusable.
To further, logically, shut the traps of the Chinese admin apologists, the correct way to look at the situation is this: as a worker on an assembly line, your contribution to the total manufacture of a product is minimal - hence, your wages are proportional to your contribution. A FT, especially those who are in limited supply in a small city or in limited numbers within a large school, are contributing far in excess to their remuneration for services rendered.
There's nothing wrong with expecting a fair shake. If FTs could easily open their own training centers - based on their 'foreigness' alone - there'd be (sorry to say it like this) white millionaires aplenty in China.
If only FTs would, as a majority, refuse the 4K jobs and demand a decent wage, could we all enjoy living in a gated community.

Cheers!

Edited to move a sneaky decimal point

[Chris_Crossley]

[vikdk]

In my game - kindy teaching - mills or companies who farm FT's out set up private classes in kindies with the usual deal being - 60% company/40% kindy profit share. Seems like some people in this business dont go along with the view that profit sharing aint on the cards:lol:

[Fortigurn]

[Paul Barufaldi]

Bear in mind that there is likely a whole network of adminstrators and others who are being supported by your productive work. Sure, the extant of their productive work may only be getting paid, but it's something they're very skilled at. To spot these elusive creatures, hang around your school's cash office door on pay day and look for greasy haired men smoking cigarettes in the hall and stuffing fat cash filled envelopes under their jackets. This money is well deserved since, as other posters keep mentioning, someone agreed to give it to them. So be proud that you're doing your part. Were this system to ever be tampered with, the entire Chinese economy would need massive restructuring. Just imagine the costs of retraining millions of guanxi bosses, government officials, and brother-in-laws with skill sets limitted to dining, drinking, and getting paid. How would they ever support their families or afford a new BMW?