Job Discussion Forums

[msBLACKgirl]

I'm new to the board and so far I've found a wealth of information.
I lived in China for about a year some time ago. (Foreign Exchange Student) I'm thinking of teaching in China post-SARS of course....and I'd like some feedback on what to expect from employers and students. I read a post where someone questioned the notion of blacks being able to teach English. It was quite shocking to see that ignorance and stereotypes are still prevelant, even among the so-called "educated." I have an excellent command of the English Language, and in the "hood" my slang/ebonics is pretty darn good..... *giggles* I'm highly qualified... 6 years of teaching experience, MA, University Instructor (by night) and Teacher Certification. I'd appreciate any advice....

[china_gurl]

msBLACKgirl,

You shouldn't have too much of a problem, I wouldn't say. Chinese are ignorant of EVERY race that isn't Chinese, so it's something we all have to grow accustomed to.

I live in a small city in the west, poor part of China, and there are 3 blacks living in our city, two from Nigeria and one from Canada but initially from Columbia. So it's not unheard of by any means.

[msBLACKgirl]

I remember the stares oh so well! Thanks for the advice. I enjoyed my time spent in China. I suppose I didn't really value the experience while I was there. I was too busy complaining about everything and missing my family. Again...thanks

[Bertrand]

[quote="msBLACKgirl"]
It was quite shocking to see that ignorance and stereotypes are still prevelant, even among the so-called "educated."

By whose definition is this "ignorance" and by what definition are there "stereotypes". Is the latter, for example, by the original definition as espoused by the Pulitzer prize-winning journalist Walter Lippmann in his 'Public Opinion'?

Highly qualified for China maybe, but not by any other standards. PhD and post-doc research allow people to call themselves highly qualified; not an MA and a teaching cert.

[Minhang Oz]

Veteran China basher Bertrand can't help himself. The lady's qualifications are excellent for actually teaching:as opposed to inhabiting an office, delivering the odd lecture or two, and worrying about their next publication. Real teachers taught most of us most of what we know, and they certainly didn't have Ph.D's and post doctoral research in their CVs.

[Owen]

Well said, Oz.

[baby predator]

Hear hear MO.


Using skin color as grounds to question someone's ability to teach English sure counts as ignorance in my book.

In my experience, it's school owners who are wary of employing black teachers. This is more out of fear of racist students boycotting classes than an actual desire to discriminate. In each case where a black teacher was employed at my school, there turned out to be no negative reaction from students. I've seen the situation improve a lot in the few years that I've been here, but there are still very few black teachers in Shanghai. I think this has a lot to do with horror stories putting people off from applying (not to mention negative postings on this forum).

[Kurochan]

I think the ease with which a black person can get a job here depends on the quality of the last black teacher they had. It's unfair, but I think it's true. I know one guy in Henan (actually, he's the same person Arioch mentioned in one of his posts), who was hired by a university. Apparently they had an African teacher they really liked, so they made this generalization in their minds "______ was a good teacher, he was black, so all black people must be good teachers" and hired my friend. The same thing happened at a primary school I worked with. Initially, they didn't want any black teachers, then were assigned one by an exchange program, they liked him, and then the next year hired another black person on their own. Unfortunately, my school has the opposite policy. They told me they wouldn't hire a black teacher no matter what, because the first person they hired caused some sort of trouble. Of course, they're scr*wing themselves out of good teachers that way.

Actually, it would be good for somebody to compile a list of universities that have/will hire black teachers, and those that won't. That would help people who are applying for jobs.

[joninchina]

I have been in China almost 6 years. My school - during that time - has had two African Americans and one Nigerian. I feel that they were treated well and I was experiencing the same stares that they got. The real racism I see is when Chinese Americans are turned away becasue they don't look foreign enough! The school wants a foreign look on their foreign teachers! Teaching ability or experience is not enough!

Anyway, I think you carry your world around with you, if you know what I mean...

[Michael T. Richter]

My employer, the Jiujiang Financial and Economic College (a.k.a. "Jiujiang Institute" or even "Jiujiang University" when they don't feel like being honest -- which is most of the time) hired a black teacher from Liberia. He was treated like dirt from day one. Where I, a white male foreign teacher, routinely had students -- both male and female -- visiting my apartment at all times of the day and evening (never overnight!), the first time he had a female student arrive at his apartment (for Chinese lessons) his waiban, who had happened to arrive for some business, freaked out, kicked the student out and told both him and, later, all students that he couldn't have female guests.

Further, while it was true that the college didn't (and doesn't) respect contracts in general, this teacher seemed to get more than his fair share of contract breaches. It seemed that he was in the waiban office every second day fighting with them over yet another item they chose not to deliver or yet another item they decided to unilaterally change. Then, when he left at the end of his contract, they refused to pay airfare to Liberia because it was too expensive and instead offered him airfare to Libya (presumably under the theory that the names sounded similar and that both were in Africa -- or something).

After he left the school decided they'd no longer be hiring blacks because he was "so much trouble". (That's odd. Any trouble they had with him was generated by their actions in treating him differently and more dishonestly than the rest of us -- yet it's somehow the fault of blacks in general....)

[Kapt. Krunch]

Ms Thang...you definitely won�t go through the same experience as a black male...the fear, the wonder, the paranoia.
I got treated most unfairly by a school in Sichuan and it was (I later learned) not to do with teaching. The guests thing is totally true. The general level of informing, lies, and gossip is ridiculous. And the refusal to actually tell you what is bothering them is bewildering. Do yourself a favour and stay out of the interior.
As for the english language teaching...once you have the schools confidence in your abilities it�s ok. I get annoyed on the street though.
I�ve actually had girls walk up to my white friend and talk to him...then ask him if I was his friend, do I speak english etc...
Ohhhh and before I forget...you will be reminded a million times that to be dark is ugly. Everything from the 50 foot umbrella walk to just being told/asked about it.
If you can deal with that, then damn girl, come on down!

̴m in Hainan...it is to China what Australia is to Britain...penal colony and place of exile...hence the genetic pool here seems inclined toward unconventional (for Chinese) thought.

[China Pete]

Hey,
Most of you sound pretty positive about black people teaching here. Are you just being politically correct? We arent in the US. Be real. No, I'm not a rascist, I have a very black Nigerian working for me and I chose him over a white guy because of his qualifications (his pronunciation is a different story,...) What I'll share is from my experience here about how the Chinese view this.
The Chinese stereotype like you wouldnt believe, and they do discriminate based on color of skin. Darker the skin, the more bad or evil the person, more likely to be a theif or murderer, and viewed as ugly. Even amongst Chinese people whiter skin is viewed as beautiful and elegant, while darker skined people may be refused jobs, talked down to, etc.
I hired this Nigerian guy, he started teaching classes, and several students left and demanded their money back because they werent being taught by a whitey... they wouldnt even take the arguement that 'you are darker skinned than me, and I still think youre a nice person.' Later on, several more threatened that If I dont personally teach their class, they will leave. The first ones that left wouldnt even take my offer of the Nigerian and I teaching. They said only you, not the black guy at all. Little kids get scared of him and say he is 'scary to death'.
In the future, I'm not sure what I will do concerning hiring. While I respect and value a good teacher no matter the skin color, The students and income of the school depends on the students' acceptance of their foreign teacher. Sorry to say... And sorry I wasnt politically correct, just being honest and sharing from my own experiences.

[Kapt. Krunch]

I am sick of thinking about this crap though. If I talk about it all the white people think I'm exagerating or that I have issues.
Hell yeah I have issues with illogical ignorance. Luckily my English is virtually flawless and my accent is pretty neutral. I can't imagine being here if I was actually from Africa.
I've actually had teachers defend the grade 3 students ignorance (open revulsion at seeing a 10 year old black boy running down a road barefoot) with " Ohh they think that all blacks are from Africa".
Me: "Meaning?"
T: "Poor dirty, ugly etc"
Me: " At least they are under no dillusions of their status in the world...unlike some "

[Kapt. Krunch]

Everyday I am amazed...
I am confronted by 2 enlightening occurences. One is really heartening, and illustrates how we are all the same. It could be a simple thing, a real , unforced smile or the like.
The other is ignorance, ineffieciency, stupidity etc. There's lots to choose from.

When I'm down I just have to think of the look on a students moms face in the market(PURE SURPRISE). Her 7 year old daughter let out a shriek ( which startled me) and ran to me and jumped at me for a hug. It was comedy of the highest order.

[Roger]

I am a white (do not call me "Caucasian" because that drives me mad - I hate being mislabelled, call me white, call me European, but never call me "Caucasian", only ignoramuses do that - ) now you see how sensitive even us whites can be. Still, I think I can stomach the regular amount of Chinese xenophobia. We are all "foreigners", which is not exactly a flattering qualification either, is it?
Being white is a relative advantage, an advantage to which Chinese aspire themselves. The darker the skin the less sexy they are in the eyes of a Chinese person, including yellow. You know that Chinese do all kinds of things to whiten their skin. Just walk on the kerb on a sunny day and avoid all those parasols with their dangerous spokes coming to your face...

What I mean to say is you must at all times be aware of being the outsider inside a tightly-knit national organism. You must learn to live with prejudices ("foreigners smell", "foreigners are barbarians", "barbarians eat barbarian food", "barbarians lived in trees a few hundred years ago").
Of course, some distinguishing marks weigh more unfavourably than others - black skin colour is worse than blue skin colour (I suppose); yellow skin colour AND WESTERN CITIZENSHIP may be a blessing, or it may be a curse (it is unpatriotic anyway, isn't it?). Sometimes, a yellow-skinned person gets no job precisely because of the prejudice that only whites speak English; among the whites, you have to be American or Canadian to be favoured; Brits may be ignored or not depending on the hirer's outlook. For a white to be denied a job that finally goes to a person of another nationality is just as insulting. Discrimination happens all the time, always based on perceived national characteristics ("the British the waged opium war on us").
If you are less sensitive (than I stand guilty of), you can survive here quite well. African Americans can be seen everywhere. As someone else said, once a good reputation has been established the hiring ban falls. Let's have more black teachers so the Chinese overcome more of their biases!