Job Discussion Forums

mmh · Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 6

I am a Canadian teacher who is taking a leave next year and planning to teach in China for part, or most, of the year. I have 16 years experience. a BA and two and a half years of graduate courses. I have an offer from Nanjing University for employment but no details about the contract, which apparently I will sign when I arrive. I have emailed them and asked for information today. But I'm curious to know if this is the usual procedure, whether or not I should trust the process and what kinds of things I should expect in a contract. For example, it seems they expect me to pay for the visas and medical tests etc.

I'd be interested to know if there are any teachers out there who have had experiences with Nanjing University and what they were. I have a number of options for this year of leave and it is not necessary that I fly straight to China to work in September, so if it doesn't look like this will be a worthwhile deal, then I will take advantage of other options before heading to China later in the year. I'm hoping I can glean some information that will help me to make my decision. Any advice would be welcome!

Malsol · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1976 Location: Lanzhou

In a word, NO.

Canuck 41 · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 8 Location: China

China is a very foreign country and the contract you are asked to sign after arriving may bear little similarity to the one offered over the web. in fact, you may not end up in a university but a private school instead, masquerading as a university. One way to protect yourself is to ask the prospective employer to provide you with the email addresses of five to ten or so of former esl teachers. If they can`t do that for you, then just avoid them.

China.Pete · Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 547

[quote="mmh"]But I'm curious to know if this is the usual procedure, whether or not I should trust the process and what kinds of things I should expect in a contract. For example, it seems they expect me to pay for the visas and medical tests etc.

A: You can trust the contract to the extent that the schools need teachers. Therefore, they must participate in a process, requiring mutual trust, to recruit them. In general, your part in building up trust is that you must pay for any expenses you incur in Canada. For their part, they should reimburse you for airfare, and perhaps pay some of the visa and medical expenses (you will have to have most of the tests redone in China, but may be able to avoid some of this if you bring your diagnostics with you) incurred after your arrival in China.

I'd be interested to know if there are any teachers out there who have had experiences with Nanjing University and what they were.

A: No direct experience. Check the university's website, which may have an English section. In general, the public universities are more "responsible," and have rather better students, than private ones. Private universities may pay slightly higher salaries. Whether or not this compesates for the lack of the former is a personal decision. The email address of at least one current foreign teacher would not be an unreasonable request.[/quote]

saint57 · Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 1:35 am Post subject:

What was your source for finding the job? That might give some insights. Have you contacted the school directly through their website? There are millions of scams out there.

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

If they do not invite you formally on a work visa then they are trying to show who is the boss in a tug-of-war once you have arrived here, and that bodes ill for you.

And I would oppose most vehemently the imposition on me of footing the medical and visa bills! Tha'ts entirely their bloody business. Do they at least offer you airfare and holiday allowance on top of free housing?

And yes, Nanjing is a good place to be in. But you may have to think about accepting a post somewhere else... Shanghai is only 200 kms away.

mlomker · Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 378

mmh · Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 6

Wow! You guys are a wealth of information. I will definitely ask the direct question, "Am I working directly for Nanjing University?" Perhaps I caused my own problems by not addresssing contract terms in the interview. We conducted a phone interview: there were two people, one with whom I had been corresponding and the head of the department. The International Affairs Office then contacted me and told me the procedure for getting a visa, along with prices for each step.

They said they would get the process for visas started over there so I could go to an embassy over here. The accomodations are included - not on campus but at an International Teachers' building and require a half hour commute by bus. The wages have not been specified: I've only been given the range. They are low, however I have only an undergrad degree at this point, so I figured that that was fair. Medical insurance? I don't know. Air fare to be reimbursed with the completion of the contract...

Have I been a complete idiot???

I will contact them and DEMAND all the things suggested. And although I do think I'm pretty smart and have conducted seminars and even lectured at university level, well, maybe I'm not savvy enough for these people! And, by the by, I am a woman, not a guy. (I sincerely hope you are not all leaning back and sighing, "Well that explains it...")

chengdude · Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 294

The original Nanjing U campus occupies primo land in the center of town; however, it's almost guaranteed that you'll be giving classes on a suburban campus where all the undergraduates are corraled. If living in the heart of a vibrant metropolis is an important consideration for your acceptance of a job, then you need to clarify exactly where you'll be living and teaching.

As long as the details are arranged and confirmed directly with the university and to your satisfaction, you shouldn't have any surprises. As others have said, Nanjing U is a true Top 10 -if not Top 5- university in China.

mmh · Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 6

Thanks for all the information and advice: I have a much clearer idea how to proceed now. I'm really glad I asked because this is a fabulous resource for those of us just finding our way into that vast Chinese market!

cluna · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 6

I sent the application and $65. I had a telephone interview. Now the English Summer Teaching Institute requires an additional sum of $75 for completion of acceptance. Is this a scam? I can not find the name of this company in the Better Business Bureau list for Northern California. Does anyone know about this program? I am worried about the exchange rate. I am supposed to pay $1,200 for the group rate airfare. They reimburse the money in local currency at an unspecified exchange rate. I know this is not Nanjing University. It is a private school. I am suspicious.

This is a copy of the email I received yesterday.

Dear Applicant to China Exchange:

Congratulations! I am please to inform you that you have been chosen to go to the summer exchange in Nanjing this summer. If you have not email or mail your birthday and a photo, please do so as you confirm. Email: [email protected]. You need to mail in the additional $75.00 fee as required for completion of your acceptance.

You will be receiving an agreement letter soon. If you have decided on other plans, please let me know as soon as possible so that the applicants on the wait list could be notified. There will also be a conference call in May. A meeting is expected at the San Francisco Airport prior to departure to China, so this may required for you to stay over night prior to departure day or arrive early enough so that you can exit the secure area to meet and return to the gate prior to departure.

Due to the unknown number of students by grade levels at this time, grade level assignments will not be done until sometime at the end of May. Students are still registering for the summer. It is important that you will be flexible and be able to teach at different grade level that you are current or have been teaching.

I am still trying to finalize the details with China. At this point, the tentative dates are July 7 through August 1 or July 10 � August 4 or 5th. I am waiting for confirmation from China and also availability of airline seats.

Most details will be forwarded with your agreement letter. I advise that you get your passport and visa right now. The exchange is at the Nanjing International Foreign Language School. Applying for visa should state that you�re a tourist and visiting the school, DO NOT PUT WORK/BUSINESS VISA.

Please email a confirmation with your preference of at least two spans of grade levels. I will try to honor this as much as possible. Please list your personal habits and preference in roommates such as early sleeper, early raiser, etc. NO SMOKING RULE at all times in the room and in the school. If you are a smoker, I need to know. If you have other medical conditions, I need to know because the conditions of the program and/or the climate may not be appropriate for you.

As a reminder, Your are responsible for the domestic portion of the trip and you must pay for the roundtrip to China up front and the reimbursement is given in China. The airfares are higher in the summer and this summer it will be much higher due to the gas prices and there is an additional gas cost attached to all airlines of over $100.00. Currently the estimated group rate is around $1,200.00 round trip. Thank you so much.

cluna · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 6

Someone sent me this email. I want to share it.

Don't take the Nanjing International Foreign Language School. it sounds like a scam.

You're interested in teaching English in China. Without a
doubt, China is a rapidly evolving environment. I myself have thought that I'd have a much more interesting social life if I taught there.

Certainly, if I taught in China, I would want to be in either Beijing or
Shanghai. I would want to teach in either an official university or for a
known American corporation established there.

However, from what I have seen, the pay is always low - much lower than what you may want - and the conditions may be quite uncomfortable. Additionally, I think there are restrictions on transfering your cash outside the country. Keep in mind, also, that the exchange rate is an issue of international controversy in the financial world. There is the possibility that the dollar-value of your salary may dwindle over the next few years, perhaps rapidly, perhaps dramatically.

Your urban environment may be cramped and quite polluted. Your rural envirnoment may be ill-equiped and isolating emotionally. Minor cities may exhibited the downsides of both the urban and rural environments. Of course, there is still beautiful countryside in China and there is a new international cosmopolitanism in the major cities.

I have a friend, a young woman, who taught in China for a couple of years and had a great time. On the other hand, I have a friend here whose coworkers here, a married couple, taught in China and for them it was one long horror story.

When I read the job postings for China I am never impressed. Never.

Be aware that there is a gun-ho goldrush mentality right now in China's ESL world. Beware of scoundrals.

If you have a PhD a whole new world of international teaching is open to you. It is your ticket into every university. If you have a curiosity
regarding Middle Eastern culture, you could find a lot of jobs that pay well (tax-free) and grant you most all of your expenses. While the hiring cycle has mostly ended, there are still open positions out here.

You can surf a multitude of ESL job postings at places like Dave's ESL Cafe. You could find good academic positions in the pages of the Chronicle of Higher of Education. Or, you could surf around finding the websites of colleges and universities yourself and applying to them directly. That's how I got my new job. The best thing about being a
professional educator in the Middle East is the numbers of holidays and the positioning & money to travel widely.

One page that can connect you with many, many instutions of higher education around the world is http://www.findaschool.org/ but it is not always up-to-date. It's still a great list, though.

When looking for an overseas job, it usually comes down to what you want to find. China - unless you're just curious to see Beijing or Shanghai - is definitely not a vacation job, and it won't be a money-maker either.

China is the land of silks and slaves, if I may twist a tourism slogan.
Remember, in China you are in a severe police state. Even here in the Middle East, I can go online and criticize the governement here as long as I don't personally insult His Majesty. In China, US-based ISPs will assist the government in tracking you down, after which, if you're a Chinese national, you'll disappear into a gulag. There will be government spies in your classes. There are government spies in all classes, and the Chinese are all aware of this.

Of course, I'd still love to visit China. I understand your interest in it.

If you would like my impression on any specific job that your are interested in China or anywhere else, I'd be happy to respond.

Good luck.

Malsol · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1976 Location: Lanzhou

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC