Job Discussion Forums

[Roger]

When you have been through three employers in China you know how this country's education assembly lines work, and you are pretty disillusioned. The first observation you are forced to make is: you are not normally taken seriously because you are a waidiren. You are never told truthfully where your students stand linguistically; you are not allowed to test them in order to streamline them into different proficiency levels. It is imperiously assumed that only your employers know what your students need, or what you should do for them. Besides that, there is this huge discrepancy between Chinese style learning - virtually exclusively for tests and exams - and western-style learning - with a view of practical applications of that which has been studied, learned or acquired and honed.
I have just recently had one of those deja-vu moments: standing in front of a noisy gaggle of 12-year olds, I was supposed to elicit spoken English responses from those kids. It was a hellish sort of a class: rich Chinese kids, kids from expat families (one was aBrazilian, one Korean, two U.S.-Chinese, and in another class there were Russians and two Italians).
I had been briefed very briefly: in just five minutes, that is! Given lousy photocopies from a Longman oral English workshop book with lousy illustrations.
Well, how do you begin a class when the kids are making somewhere between 7o and 77 decibels? There was a huge commotion and their own teacher quietly sat down and watched things unfold.
I took up poisition in front and momentarily caught their attention; in a short lull I bellowed "good morning!" I heard a few "good morning, teacher!" from a handful of those little darlings, but those few hardly made up half of the class. The other half at once resumed their private conversations. One guy actually was jumping up and down in a sort of warming-up exercise, unperturbed.
So I rounded up a few I was sure understood English and hauled them in front. I asked one after the other what their names were; when the first one had introduced herself - in very exquisite English! - I pointed to her classmates still sitting and talking; "who is this lovely lady?" Two girls directly in front answered, "this is Elvira Wang!" Their tiny voices just carried over the din emanating from behind and around them; I thought their teacher would hush those noisy brutes but no, she sat there, staring at the proceedings.
Finally I went up to a bunch of boys that had been extremely rumbunctious; "alright, young men, come with me, you..and you...and you...and you!!"
One stood up, apparently shocked out of his wits, "shenma?" He looked quite dazed. "Mei you shenma, you come with me!" I ordered him. "Women ting bu dong!" the other 3 went, remaining seated.
I ignored them and continued my work with more willing members of that horde of vandals. The lesson dragged on and on, with a lot of noise drowning out the voices of those that cooperated.
I told the class teacher more than once I would need more support from her - or else she had better separate the unruly elements from the good ones. Actually, I had seen a Canadian teacher deal with those boors: he had to use a microphone to be heard even though the class had fewer than 35 pupils!
Anyway, I am a bit tired of dealing with kids of this kind here in Guangdong where parents feel money buys their progeny every advantage, education level and privileges. Everyone is fooling everyone: the parents are being fooled by the education suppliers (because they cash in on gullible parents who pay extra for extra-curricular classes); kids who fool themselves into believing they can fool their parents and future employers forever, and FTs who get taken for a ride for pocket money...

I am done with this kind of "classes"; it's not worth my efforts, really! I am sorry for the truly lovely individuals inside each class - it's the rowdy elements that rule. Mobs!

But there is a silvery lining on the horizon.
Every other year I meet a special person who rises above the average of their peers. I have had such outstanding students virtually every year; this year (and last year) I have had a private student aged 13. He not only speaks English far, far more competently than any university student I have - he loves coming to class and he asks his parents to keep me on their payroll.
That's amazing! His weekly schedule is chock-a-block full with homework assignments, music classes (extra-curricular), football training, and the boy also has special hobbies: he is into biology, specialising in insects and spiders! Apart from that, he is a gifted story teller (he entertains me on occasional trips by car with one of his Chinese stories translated from English just so as to give me some Chinese in return).
His parents surprised me too when I entertained them at my home the other day. They complained that Chinese schools rob students of their own spare time! They said their son should have a timetable similar to those in use in the U.K. Have you ever heard Chinese people opine that there is too much schooling taking place? Most would feel the more the better - not the parents of this unique boy!

To my surprise, they came up with a special offer: they would invite me on a summer holiday trip with their son...so that he would be exposed to a daily dose of English. And I would be able to travel to my dream destination in Yunnan.
I am not sure whether I want to accept their extraordinary generosity; but the fact that these people think in very similar ways to mine is in itself rewarding!

[vikdk]

hey Rog we get a bit of a one sided picture here - you give us a comical description of what you had to put up with from the kids, but what did they have to put up with from you?????
We get a slight taste of some rather inapproriate teacher/student classroom language - do you really say -"who is this lovely lady?" - to 12 year old girls - I know I might sound a bit PC here, but that does sound pretty yuckkkkkkkky doesn't it!!!!! But, more to the point, what was your lesson plan, what was the intended content of your lesson and why did your students find you and your teaching so uniteresting (and please don't use the word -Chinese mindset- anywhere in your answer). If after 10 years plus experience at this game you can still put up with this kind of situation then Chinese education has either welded you into a man of supreme teaching steel, or one with a more mundane professional outlook, which tells him that even after so many years in-country you still take jobs like this just to earn yer buck????
Is there any hope for the rest of us - or should we also seek solice in those proverbial silver linings of supporting an elite minority of over-acheivers at the expense of condemning the rest to the status of inferior spoilt hoodlums

[kev7161]

In general, I go toward the teen crowd when it comes to teaching. I'd much rather deal with sleeping students than rowdy ones. It came as a shock to me when I took this job teaching primary first graders. I too was in a similar situation at the beginning of September, Roger. It wasn't about ability or previous knowledge when it came to forming this class. It was all about who had the most money. I have a FLUENT Australian born Chinese boy who is light years ahead of any of the others in class. He belongs is 3rd or 4th grade and not 1st grade. Actually, he gets so bored in my lessons, that he tends to cause trouble. It's not his fault as I know where he's coming from, but the structure of my day prevents me to giving him too many special things to study. We send him off, once a day, to join a 3rd grade English class, but he's more advanced than they are as well.

On the other end of the scale, I have a girl who occasionally does well on paper, but come test time, she loses it. I have a handful (mostly girls) who barely manage to squeek out answers . . . if they can even do so almost a year after we've been learning English. Then I have superstars that can speak rather well (you know, for 1st graders), who shine on every project we do: Science projects, Art, spelling competitions, handwriting skills, etc.

I try to group the achievers with the underachievers, but the "good" students want nothing to do with the "not-so-good" students and they rarely do any cooperative learning; they prefer to do it on their own. Some students have the advantage that at home their parents either a) speak some English or b) encourage the child with English with other books, DVDs, etc. so the child gets more exposure outside of the classroom. The ones that don't have this exposure often do much worse on tests and other classroom activities.

Lately I've been emphasizing using more spoken English during my lessons and having exercises where they get to practice their English. At first grade, it's the same problem as middle school. When one student is trying to speak, the rest of the class starts jabbering in Chinese. It's maddening.

So, I guess what I'm saying, Roger, is it's not uncommon to throw so many different levels together in one class. The education system here (in general) is school, school, school: mornings, evenings, weekends . . . so a kid doesn't have much time to be a kid and they seem to let it out in the "fun" English teacher's class (where it is expected we sing songs and play games ALL the time - - you know, a LIVELY class - - to teach them English). My advantage is that I teach English and Math and Science and Social Studies so we have a more regimented day. I see my same group of kids every day, all day so it's not the chaos that it usually is for a twice-a-week "Spoken English" class. So, yes indeed, I understand your frustrations but I would think that the longer you do this, the more tricks you can learn to sort of control the situation. However, you may have run up against a wall and a summer off is just what you need to recharge your batteries.

[mike w]

Roger:

You must choose some pretty crappy schools to work in. I've been here longer than you, and the scenario you describe is one that I only rarely find. I have taught in private school, private college, public middle school, university, and in industry.
I often read your posts, many of which seem to be nothing more than pointless whining and whingeing, and often containing incorrect and misleading information.
Maybe you would do better to focus your efforts on finding a decent school in which to ply your trade, and then hopefully we will have less pointless posts on here from you.

Stay cool my friend - there are plenty of good schools out there.

[vikdk]

Many western school systems also don't use student ability streaming when making up classes - only giving alternative attention and classes to those with real learning disabilities. Therefore the situation that was thus described -

[kev7161]

I don't mind mainstreaming (well, to a certain extent) if I actually had the resources and schedule to deal with some of the "slower" students in small group situations or one-on-one. The problem is that I have exactly 40 minutes per lesson and, should I try to help one student, then the rest of the class turns to chaos, generally. Sometimes I'll have a Chinese teacher with me who will help out once the self-study time begins, but that is only occasionally. Also, we don't have Special Ed teachers (by the way, Special Ed. can refer to LD kids or gifted kids, which I seem to have both), that come into the classroom to assist and/or take students out of the room to work with them individually. Maybe they have these sort of specially trained teachers in public schools, but I've never heard of one or read of one here at Dave's. Anyone have any input on this?

The OTHER problem is that the Chinese like to keep all the kids together as much as possible throughout their entire school life (pre-college). In the US, once kids hit junior high, they start being grouped into advanced classes, regular classes and, yes, special education classes. They still interact with each other through PE courses, Art, Music, lunchtimes, and maybe a few general ed. classes, but the seperation of wheat and chaff begins in those early adolesent years.

I'm not trying to sound harsh with those that have LD or BD or even trying to marginalize them, rather the reality is that some kids just can't keep up with their peers and the poor teacher that has a mixed bag can often be challenged, no matter how many years they have under their belt. Especially so here in China.

[vikdk]

[Brian Caulfield]

sounds like you were not prepared Roger . Next time you go into a class like this for the first time take a ball in . PUt them in a circle and then toss the ball to one students saying "What's your name ?" and then have them doing the same thing to another student . I thought You were a TPR person ? I enjoy teaching middle school the most . They never complain .
Make some flash cards and teach them some vocabulary .
And you have a mixed class of different nationalities . This is ideal . You don't have to worry about someone saying" Wo bu Ju dao ".
Are you supplementing your work at the prestiguous university you were teaching at last year or have you moved on ?

[fallon77]

[Roger]

It's gratifying to see the lively responses. Naturally Vikkie's posts were marred by her specific subjectivity, her tendency to grandstand and self-aggrandize while trying to downsize someone else - does this attitude guide her in assessing her own students as well? Ah yes, a doctor in kindergarten psychology is not above personalising issues - she who categorically demonised at some point in the past forumates with links to South Africa as evil.

The point of my post was to open the eyes of those who might wish to switch from an adult training centre or a college to a primary school - for extra-curricula English lessons. Of course, I do not need this kind of job since I have a regular full-time job that is far more satisfying.

But what newbies or even veterans often ignore is the potential for chaos at schools where parents pay for extra classes, not knowing that their own single child is not up to scratch in comparison with some of his or her peers.
And another matter is that these kids are not used to responding as individuals; they have been brought up in a communitarian spirit, chorussing after their teacher, not answering a person's personal questions. What's more, half of them obviously have missed the English boat, not understanding any 3 words strung together.
I also have a kindergarten and have the very opposite impression: there is genuine joy on the part of the pupils, keen interest, and they are willing to cooperate. I love the kiddies, I don't hate the primary school kids but I haven't found the justification to go on teaching them, and I still love that 13-year old - beside my university students.

[Brian Caulfield]

You learn to teach adults by teaching kids . I am glad that you are doing honest work now Roger .

[InTime]

I've had many good times doing TPR with Story...based upon the Disney movie MULAN.

Recently I came across a MULAN book, with pictures/Chinese characters/Pinyin.

I'll develop a bilingual class (learning environment), in the spirit of TPR-S and Community Language Learning, in which the FTs can be improving their Chinese while they're using MULAN with the kids.

If FTs are actually improving their Chinese while doing teaching...that can help their morale.
AND...if we FTs are in a better mood, the kids can sense that...and that can make the experience better for all concerned.

Likewise, if the kids sense that the FT doesn't enjoy being w/them...then that's a vicious cycle, isn't it?

I recall that in Taiwan one fellow FT described FTs as bain "oral prost' itutes."

Speaking only for the money, yes?
BUT...even for a P...who'd want to pay a P who looked down on the customer? And...THAT feeling/perception can affect/infect performance, can't it? Affective filter rises, but not the pleasure principle, eh?

Learning as an orgasmic whole-brained/bodied experience...

This week I did My Fair Lady w/my high school kids. Often I stood in the back of the room, to see if they were interested in the movie.
Definitely yes!!! 98%.

The songs and the energy...are elevating...
and they lower the affective filter

[Roger]

[quote="vikdk"]

[Super Frank]

Don't all prostitues look down on their customers??

Anyway,

what can be learnt in a classroom that can't be learnt on the job?? Perhaps a bit of theory behind education but surely two years of teaching would be much better than 4 years in a classroom reading about teaching? Discussing experience with other teaches is as good as reading a few books, which can be done aswell anyway.

Discipline issues are always different no matter who you teach. What works for your colleagues may not work for you so you have to try different approaches.

I am a performing monkey apparently, some peolpe have a chip on their shoulder about that.

[vikdk]