Job Discussion Forums

[little horsey]

...and now I'm starting to have some second thoughts!

As some of you may or may not know, I was dealing with a university in Qingdao. Here's a deal that we finally agreed on:

+ 3500/month
+ 18 hours/week - 4-6 of those hours will be teaching in a new teacher training course where I'll have very little preparation
+ airfare
+ etc.

Here's why I'm starting to doubt:

+ general bad feeling increasing with every new e-mail from them.
+ must ask several times before some questions are answered (thought it could be a language thing, but not so sure anymore).
+ feel like they are going to try to NOT give me a contract (still haven't seen it).

All of this, with what I know isn't the greatest offer in the world has got me thinking negatively about this whole situation I've got myself into. I do like the amount of freedom I'll be given when it comes to what and how I will teach.

Am I just fretting over nothing over here? Should I start looking for work elsewhere? Is it too late to find anything for September anymore?

Thanks for your help....and sorry for being such a "newbie"!

This is the second time I wrote this message in the last half hour. Don't know what went wrong with the first one, but here's to hoping this one goes through...

[kathleen]

I don't think I would worry too much. Are they a state or private school? If you are relatively inexperienced that is not such a bad salary; I know people who only make y2500. I get 3500 for 14 hours but I get lots of other work at a higher rate and my housing is exceptionally nice.

As to the contract, they must send it to you and you should review it before you buy your ticket. Make sure it is issued by the Foreign Experts Bureau.

Plenty of other jobs as far as I can tell. Where are you coming from? Always bring enough money for an emergency, at least $1000. in travelers' checks is a good idea.

Coming to China for the first time is an adventure and requires a leap of faith but in my opinion it's worth it. I took my first such leap ten years ago; it changed my life. I have loved myteaching experiences here, loved learning the language, getting to know the people and the culture, eating fabulous food, and perhaps most importantly, I like the ways in which China has changed me.

I wish you well.

Kathleen

[Count_Fathom]

A university in a major city. You've been in contact for some time, so it seems. Contract negotiations are complete. What are you asking? Genereal stuff? - housing, clothing, transportation, dates? If s/he is lagging behind on the emails, s/he is probably busy hunting more FT's and frantically replying to dozens of emails a day, along with other school admin work. Sounds like you've got some cold feet; I wouldn't worry tooooo much.

As for not sending the contract - if your deal is unique, some oddities they haven't dealt with before, then it might take them some time to rewrite in an acceptable manner to the FE bureau.

You're likely to recieve a quick reply if your write something along the lines of "I'm a little worried that I haven't heard from you for a while, I really need these Q's answered:...."..

God Luck

[little horsey]

Thanks people!

I think yesterday was little horsey's freak out day. I anticipate more of the same in the next month and a half...

[Minhang Oz]

Also remember its vacation time here. Our FAO is only open on a part time basis, often just with one of the assistants checking the mail etc, so you may be emailing people who have little English, or don't know the answer to your question.
You'll get by on 3500 in China, even with some Chinese excesses thrown in. Don't get an expensive looking girlfriend though - you'll recognise the type.

[MyTurnNow]

I'm going to try the opposite tack here.

I haven't read your correspondence with this school, so I don't know particulars. But if you don't have a firm commitment, and if you don't like what you are hearing, and are becoming uncomfortable in your dealings with this prospective employer, perhaps you should listen to that and re-open your search.

And IMHO 3500 RMB a month is insulting.

MT

[MartinK]

...

[Linda L.]

When you put all of your eggs in one basket and then drop the basket, make scrambled eggs.

Just go for it!! It will not be the end of the world even if it turns out bad. Just consider any China experience as life enriching.

[MyTurnNow]

[Linda L.]

MTN you are so myopic. Most of the "old China hands' posting excellent advice here had their bad first China experience, some two or three. They lived through it and are better for it.

As to the one year drivel, I have seen many come and go in just days, weeks or months. When a deal goes bad, there are exits. There is always an escape from a bad situation, one just needs to find it. I know first hand about escapes from a bad situation.

I do not care how much long distance research, preparation and other advice seeking you do, it is different once you arrive and one needs to be heads up and ready for the worst while hoping for the best.

A bad employment situation for one may be good for another and visa verse. I have seen people crash and burn who had all their ducks lined up in advance.

So back off buckaroo. Everyone will have their own experience and everyone should learn from every experience. There are things that one just can not control.

As I said before, just go for it! If it doesn't work out, get out. Try another employer. No crooked Chinese employer stands a chance in the Chinese court and an unhappy, cheated employee, will not be forced to honor a one year contract.

Also there are summer contracts and six month contracts.

Got a job offer, take it! Then look around and improve your situation if possible. Many have done it before and manhy will do it again.

MTN your advice is cowardly!

[MyTurnNow]

Linda, your referral to me as "myopic" is excellent. Thank you.

But you're right; perhaps it was cowardly of me to advise using prudence and common sense and self-trust when selecting a job. The brave, macho thing to do is to just charge on in, damn the torpedoes, and be miserable now so that you can be wiser later. Either that or just lightly break the contract and skip on elsewhere. Sure.

Bull s#!t. Yes, my first employer here was a disastrous gang of crooks and weasels. Yes, I got through it alive, and yes, I think I am wiser for it now. But if I were able to go back and undo that time and skip right on ahead to the good stuff and not have to endure all that abuse and misery, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Perhaps I am just a weak person because I haven't suffered quite enough to start enjoying it yet.

The waters in this business here are dangerous. Many of the people offering jobs here are crooks and cheats and liars, and they can make your life a living hell. As we come into the arena we need advice from others...but most of all we need to rely upon our own judgments.

LindaL, your advice to do otherwise is recklessly and dangerously irresponsible.

MT

[Klamm]

Over the coals. 3,500 Rmb is bare minimum or less. You're doing charity work, keep that in mind. Just please don't have a degree or any clue about teaching since you can 5,000 Rmb a month if you're both those and a Russian native. Nothing against Russians, but they're not teaching Russian, are they? It's true.

If you're working for a University or something or other, you should at least make a serious effort to raise that salary. Don't encourage China's underappreciation, salary-wise, for your at least slightly more qualified than non-native Chinese status.

No joking. I could put you into contact with three schools that pay 5,000 Rmb or more. I will, too, if you're interested. I'm getting out of this silly country. Like I said, if you're into charity/experience thing, I guess go for it. But why not work somewhere else, if you have a BA, save 7K and then spend a few thousands, get a visa and travel the place for a few months?

[Linda L.]

MT you did your best and still fell into the first job trap, right? But what if you had been scared off? Now where would you be and what would you be doing?

Anway, everyone needs to make their own mistakes and learn their own lessons. Yes, history repeats itself, again, again, and again.

I took my own advice and I have no regrets. Each to his own. I think you are overly cautious. I take back the cowardly claim. Sorry.

Do you know how many teachers have taken jobs against the advice here and posted on the Job Information Journal, only to suffer the same exact problems? I know many such persons. Save your breath. They will go head strong into the jaws of danger no matter what you or I advise, if that is their inclination. I again say "GO FOR IT." Nothing ventured, nothing gained!

Don't be shy, give it a try. Learn from your defeats and sorrows.

Thanks for the healthy debate MT and when is the new MT due?

[MartinK]

...

[MyTurnNow]

Linda,
I wish I could say I had done my best, but I didn't. I didn't know to. I did no research, although I feel better now since I know that this company suppresses negative reports and research wouldn't have helped anyway.

I just sort of fell in. The salary seemed comparatively good and had shorter hours than EF. It was owned and managed by Americans. They had schools in exotic-sounding places like Dalian and Changchun and Shenyang. And they advertised heavily everywhere. And I went with that. It wasn't until months later that I began to see the horrible truth about them.

I at least felt good about where I was going, at least at first. If I'd had the advice and gone anyway I'd feel pretty stupid right now. I still believe that if you are getting "bad vibes" from a place you should at least listen to them. And if one gets advice and doesn't heed it there's nothing much that can help them anyway, is there? At least get wiser from that.

Telling someone in this business in China they're "being overly cautious" is a little like telling a guy in a prison shower he's "being overly cautious".

The little one will be here in the Spring. Half Irish/Scottish and half Chinese, and for life always unsure whether to throw a temper fit or just crawl somewhere for a nap.

MT