Job Discussion Forums

[Shan-Shan]

This past week I've taken the initiative to observe my Chinese counterparts at the university where I teach. My observations have followed a scheme, a frankenstein approach melding aspects of COLT and my own ideas, to compare what the Chinese teachers do with what I do in my language classroom.

I would like to ask whether or not anyone here has undertaken the same task; if so, what approaches did you use? What difficulties did you encounter? Did it amount to anything productive?

The purpose behind this initiative is to, hopefully, generate dialogue between myself and the Chinese English teachers. The observations are my way to become familiar with we all do in the classroom. The Chinese teachers have also been given my schedule, and invitation to watch how I teach.

This first step -- seeing what we all do -- is intended to lead into meetings/discussions on teaching approaches/ ideas on learning language that I hope to put together after the summer break.

Has anyone else constructed/began to contruct a working dialogue between the foreign and Chinese teachers that has amounted to steps in pedagogical development at their school?

I hope to hear from others on this subject.


Thank You.

[Roger]

I do welcome this initiative of yours! We need to instituionalise a dialogue between the two sides and two cultures.
I too have observed many CHinese English teachers - at kindergarten level (they were not kindergarten professionals but teachers who could have taught at a primary or middle school!), as well as at colleges and our university.

And, of course, I have also been the subject of watching, viewing and assessing.

There are quite obvious differences between the two teaching styles, but then again, the Chinese English teachers have also quite DIFFERENT teaching goals compared to us: they teach merely for their students to pass exams, not to become English communicators. I think that explains a lot about the cultural differences!

It explains to a large part the fact that we are not really taken as seriously as our Chinese counterparts, and that's why there remains this pseudo-symbiotic division of labour - our contribution is viewed as a dessert, an extra that can be done without; we are here on sufferance.

A dialogue should be started at schools - teacher meetings where our feedback could be used to modify the teaching styles of our Chinese colleagues! I have repeatedly asked at colleges and at our university to be invited to a meeting with other faculty at least once or twice a semester; this suggestion was dismissed with, among otherg reasons, the claim that "there isn't enough topically to keep such meetings happening". That's a way of sticking the head into the sand!

One defining feature of Chinese teachers I have come across is this: they do not speak English with their own students during entire lessons! Surely they would develop a better feel for their students' skills if they tested the waters regularly?
It would make our job so much easier - since our colleagues would not put the most diverse performers in the same class!

[vikdk]

[Bayden]

[Shan-Shan]

In one class of second year English majors, the teacher wrote down about items on the blackboard, a mixture of vocabulary, phrasal verbs and stock phrases. The teacher defined each item (in English and occasionally in Chinese, not the other way around surprisingly), and then had the students as a whole repeat the word/phrase in turn.

After the list was completed, students were given "two minutes to recite the words to [themselves]". After two minutes, students, one by one, were told to stand up, stare at their desk "like [they were] confessing [their] sins" (to quote the teacher), and translate into Chinese the English word/phrase from the board as read by the teacher.

This was an activity that used about 15-20 minutes of class time. Not once were students encouraged to discuss the meanings of the words with other students, use the words to express an opinion or to exchange some information. In fact, students were discouraged to do anything other than repeat the words, contextless, to themselves, and then to translate them into Chinese at the request of the teacher.


I agree with Roger that teachers are restrained by the commands from above to prepare students for exams. Communicative competence is not part of the curriculum -- only linguistic competence for test purposes. Many FT's classes are the "dessert": sometimes examable (if so, it's often not a mark "that counts") though often only viewed as "practice". It was just that term that a Chinese teacher used when speaking with me:

"So your class for the teachers, you have them practice English?"
- No, I teach them, and they perform tasks using what I've taught...

The perception that I've been receiving from both students and teachers is that the FT class, should it branded with "oral" at the beginning, is something not to be taken seriously. One reason for this attitude may come from past experiences where FTs arrange flimsy activites where students see no objective to the lesson other than to speak casually with one another; or perhaps it's just the fact that many "oral" class grades never reach the students final record; thus the class is deemed superfluous because learning, as we know, only means grade/mark/ chance to get a job.

Perhaps now that we have some test systems that involve an oral communicative component (like IELTS), "oral" English at many universities will be regarded not as the lazy cousin of Writing and Reading, but as a vital skill if one wants to succeed at a language, and not waste years of study only to be dependent on a piece of paper and pen when having to express something in English.

[vikdk]

[Shan-Shan]

[color=blue]Not to rain on your parade, it's a nice thought, but the reality is you'll probably find they're not at all interested. You're a dancing monkey and they're professionals as far as they're concerned.[/color]


My teaching schedule has been posted in the office. Whether or not anyone comes to see any of my classes remains to be seen. This small effort on my part is in response to the "monkey" perceptions that may be had of me. Hopefully something can happen, and I'll be allowed to evolve past the primate stage.

However, I won't be too hurt if all I get to do next semester is beat my chest against the mass of tired chair warmers.

[Bayden]

This reminds me of something I once heard.
'In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.'

[Shan-Shan]

One of my "Teacher Training" classes, the "dessert" label is quite appropriate, should "dessert" be seen as a positive thing. The selection process was based on already existing English competence: the better English ability of the teacher, the greater the chance of joining the class. (However, I'm not sure whether or not "joining" the class is viewed by all as "dessert" or bad tasting medicine! But from those who attend, I only see motivation to learn and do the tasks)

But I agree: allowing myself to see what I do as only icing or bubble gum will only negatively affect how I see myself in my chosen profession. My job performace, and interest in what I do, will then only suffer.

I have to define myself -- cut off the tail, put the banana aside and shave all that body hair.

[vikdk]

[Shan-Shan]

Well, the tired chair warmers are the few in the 16th. row who are already asleep with earphones firmly in place when I enter the classroom. When I do speak with them, casually and without reference to their diuranal noctural habits, I find that they are incapable of understanding very basic English, a requirement for my Third Year Oral English class. They themselves tell me Chinese, and I, in turn, assure them not to worry, and help where I can.

I usually let them be, and choose to pay attention to the 70 students who are cabable of engaging in what I've set out.

[englishgibson]

70 in one classroom? I guess that's were the problem comes from. Well, if you teach creative writing....ohh...why am I saying "creative"....anyway writing, 70 might not be such a number.... What is it that you really teach those 70?
In any case, I'd wonder how many of those 70 in the class are really interested in English language or interested in a foreign teacher or interested in a foreign country. Kind of tough to have a good lesson plan...

Speaking of professional dialogues between Chinese and foreign teachers, I'd say it may vary around the country. It depends what part of China you are or what school you are in.
I've been in China for almost 5 years by now and I've had quite a few experiences.
At one government public school (I assume that's what this is about) a few young bright Chinese teachers could lead quite nice conversations with me on varieties of topics. When it came down to their work it was pretty obvious that they were under a lot of stress due to the "exams" and largely restricted to follow the "plans". Many were well trained to "insert" the knowledge (English language "words" and "grammar") into the kids' heads. Discussing those teachers' work with them, I always got friendly replies and the word "exam" was most of the time in their mouth.
My understanding was that it was not the "exams" as per say, but the way the exams were and the way the exams had to be given to all the students. The point is that those Chinese teachers of English that could communicate well with me did not shy away from the topic at all. To my pleasure they openly discussed it with me at any given occassion.
At private mills that I've been since then, most of the Chinese staff that has some knowledge of English is often shy to discuss work related issues. They often are on their "clause infested contracts" with loads of ambiguous wordings with "business secrets of schools" not to be disclosed to anyone there. My Chinese coworkers teachers have not even been allowed to share my huge office with me. I've always wondered why and so have they. So, what kind of pro dialogue can we have....those poor people are often restricted to discussions with us.

Peace
And
Cheers and beers

_____________________________________________________________
Past tense doesn't have to be used in Putonghua

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

Edited to remove offensive content.

Middy

[Shan-Shan]

In these unfortunately large classes of 70, I try to divide the time between controlled, form focused activities (learning a new grammar feature of the language, for example) and activities (be they paired or small group with possible interaction between pairs and groups) where the focus of the form exercise needs to be implemented in order to complete part(s) of the communicative activity.

With smaller numbers, opinion-gap activities,among other types, seem more manageable. However, when the numbers are 40 plus, tasks which might require the learner to be more independent in language use I find tend to break down into L1 chit-chat that, given how the students are arranged in long rows making it impossible for me to physically interact with them, is difficult to monitor.

[Chris_Crossley]

It was only at the state-run primary school in the Wuchang district of Wuhan, where I worked for a year (my third in TEFL), that there was daily dialogue between the local teachers and the foreign teachers. Each foreign teacher had a local teacher as an assistant in his or her classes, and there were daily discussions between them when they were planning how they were going to teach a particular point of grammar, new vocabulary, etc, and what materials to use.

Occasionally, there would be "show lessons" where the foreign teachers and the class would, in essence, "perform" already-done lessons to the local teachers and parents looking in. The Chinese principal of the school even saw me "perform" a few times (more than other teachers, I was told).

Any observations made (in the form of notes taken) by Chinese teachers were for discussion at meetings that took place later on and were exclusively the affair of the local teachers. Whenever we FTs enquired about what was discussed, we seemed always to get the somewhat vague reply that the powers-that-be wanted to take note of how we did things in order to see whether the locals could improve their own performance in the classroom - even if, during my year at the school, I was actually the only qualified school teacher there amongst the FTs!

Since FTs and local teachers were working together in the classroom, I suppose it made sense for them to communicate with us and observe us in action. Wherever else I have worked, though, locals and FTs conducted their own lessons entirely separately with entirely separate groups. For example, in the centre where I work now, there are four female Chinese teachers engaged in teaching about 50 students in what might best be called a pre-preparatory course (i.e., the one before the one before) for the pre-undergraduate (i.e., pre-freshman) programme called the International Foundation Year (IFY).

The focus is to bring the English-language skills of these students up to scratch before they can do the summer pre-IFY course, which, in turn, leads to the 2-semester IFY course, where they are taught other subjects (like science, maths, business or engineering) besides English.

However, no FTs teach on this pre-preparatory course, so there is no need for any dialogue between those teachers and FTs as such. Two of the local teachers do get on with the FTs and chat to them regularly, while the other two (and far less experienced) teachers tend to distance themselves from the FTs.