Job Discussion Forums

[yesteacher!]

An ethical question: I have been teaching this company for a few weeks after talking over for two other teachers who sucked.

The contracted hours soon will end and the manager of the company came to me and asked if I would be willing to continue the course outside of my obligation to the training center I am working for.

Facts:

I am part time at this training center.
I like this training center because of the higher rate of pay.
The company offered more money then the standard pay from the training center.
The company class is super easy, except to two knuckleheads.
This new (or extended) class doesn't yet create any conflicts schedule-wise.

Your thoughts???

Would it be unethical for me to accept this new/old class without the training center's knowlegde? The training center that introduced me to this company in the first place?

[China.Pete]

"The company offered more money then the standard pay from the training center."

More money than the training center pays YOU, or more money than the company pays the training center? Faced with this situation, I would check with the training center to see what they customarily charge for in-company training (casually chat up one of the receptionists, or check out their marketing lit). Try quoting this price to your flatterers and see what happens. I suspect this may end your ethical dilemma in short order.

If it's any help, I've accepted a similar offer exactly once with two private (in China, VIP) students. When I left the language school, they asked to continue studying with me. I said, well, that would harm the branch owner (who had been really fair to me). They said no, they would continue to study at the school AND with me. They were friends with the owner, and agreed to pay me the full freight, so I said fine.

But, in general, cutting private deals with your "privates" may inevitably result in your undercutting the market for English teaching courses, which is hardly in your long-term interest. If you think you can market yourself better than the school, and negotiate your own leasing arrangements, then I'd say why not go all the way and forget about the school?

[Bayden]

They'll be paying him more than the school pays him but less than they pay the school.
The school won't be happy about losing a valuable contract that they put time and effort into securing, and they will find out.
That said, a friend of mine did something similar and is now pulling 7000 a month MORE.
It's business remember. Look out for No. 1.

[China.Pete]

My point exactly, Bayden. And as a businessman, I should have a clear idea of what my true value is. Of course, you may reach a point, as your friend apparently has, where you really are better off arranging your own private tutorials. I just didn't want to tell our poster Yesteacher, sure, go ahead and cut a side deal with the company, and then they do the same to him as soon as someone else comes along who will do it for even less and he's left with squat. Once he really has built up enough of a rep with a company or a few individuals, and he'll know when that is because they're willing to pay him what a teacher should be worth in his particular market, then feel free to go into business for himself. Just do it in a business-like way.

[Roger]

You phrased it as an "ethical question" but you make it enormously difficult to arrive at some educated answer.

To begin with, you say you are a PART-TIMER; who is your FULL-TIME employer?

This is important since only your FT employer has the right to decide whether you can make money on the side; if he agrees then that's fine.

But working for a training centre that farms you out is quite iffy; do they do so legally? Probably not. So, if you allow that company to poach you are you acting disloyally?

Remember the company will get a huge discount if they pay you themselves; and you may not benefit from any job security since you will be totally on your own.

That company isn't acting out of charitable considerations either. Do you want to be complicit in their shady dealings?

[yesteacher!]

Thanks for your responses.

I am part-time and without a full-time employer.

The companies offer is 50% more per hour then the training center offers and 50% less then what the training center charges. So I am cheaper then the center for the customer, but it is still a higher rate of pay for me.

Second, the training center is legit. They have always paid on time, eventhough there has been occasional mistakes. They have zero clue about FTs, but that is not yet a crime.

Thoughs?

[China.Pete]

Yesteacher!, I would ask the company for the full amount the training center is charging them per hour. This would establish whether the company is interested in retaining your teaching skills, or a bargain.

This being China, we can probably assume it's the latter. So, as for what one poster described as looking out for number 1, should you accept such a low-ball offer - from THEIR point of view, if not yours - or shouldn't you?

Let me say that I believe there is an ethical judgement involved here. But I also believe that ethics are really about deciding what's in our longer-term interest - as opposed to just what works for today. Sadly, this idea seems lost on many businesses in China.

Looking at this as a personal business decision, then, you have to recognize that you're relying on the training center for your marketing costs. When this gig is up, are you going to be able to find another? Will word of mouth, perhaps from this company, get you enough jobs to earn what you need? Or will you just have to start over again at another school?

Maybe you can do without the training center altogether. Would you prefer to advertise yourself directly on a job board - and will your Chinese language skills allow you to work out the details with your prospective customers?

Many foreign teachers prefer working with a school or training center, at least in the beginning, because they are not able to arrange (or not interested in arranging) this for themselves. And if this training center has, as you say, been paying you on time, it may be a relationship that is worth preserving. But if you do decide to go on your own, don't make the mistake even many Chinese language schools make - get all of your money up-front

[bearcanada]

This is a systemic condition that temp agencies all over the world must deal with constantly. An agency sends a temp employee to a corporate client and soon the client wants to hire the employee. Many people go to temp agencies precisely for the excellent chances of finding a good permanent job, and some companies use temp agencies as a convenient and inexpensive recruiting tool.

There are two contracts involved; one between the employee (teacher) and the agency, the other between the agency and the client. Usually the agency provides for this evenuality in the contracts, forbidding such moves without notification and payment. However, I believe the Western courts have generally held that these restrictions limit a person's freedom to find gainful employment, so not much happens.

There is an ethical question involved here, and it is that the client is breaching his obligation (legally or morally) to the agency and is at the same time inciting the temp employee (teacher) to do the same. This effectively forces a teacher to choose between a good job and his (legal or moral) obligation to the temp agency. That isn't a nice thing to do to someone.

The accepted above-board way of dealing with this issue is for the client to inform the agency of his intentions and to pay a (usually small) recruiting fee. Not many people do this, leaving the employee to wrestle with the problem.

An alternative is to complete the temp contract, wait a suitable length of time (typically three months), then hire the temp employee with no legal or moral strings attached. Not too many people do this, either.

The problem for the teacher is twofold. He or she risks discovery and the wrath of the agency (at best, no more temp jobs ever) and also the uncomfortable prospect of being employed by a classless sneak. There is also the moral issue of the teacher having knowingly done something unethical, which bothers some people more than others.

The problem with a case study like this is that it presents a problem that seems to have a choice of only two unsatisfactory alternatives, but this is missing the forest for the trees because in fact a teacher has many choices and doesn't have to take the bait on this one at all.

One alternative is to inform the agency of the offer so the teacher's ethical slate is clean, and to look diligently for private corporate clients. With your declaration of honesty, the agency might be willing to give you the names of some inactive past clients you might approach. There are many part-time corporate teaching positions available in almost any city. One needs only to look for them.

The real issue here is the trade-off between a higher personal income from private clients and the lower income but freedom from responsibility of marketing that comes with an affiliation with an agency. The agency does all the work of finding the jobs and provides you with some security in return for keeping some of the money. That's not unfair to anyone.

It is usually also true that a corporate client will pay less to an individual teacher than to an agency, and most teachers will charge less than an agency charges. And that's fair to everyone too, because an agency's overhead is usually close to 50% of the revenue. Those offices and all the staff and marketing efforts are not free. A teacher can afford to charge only half that of an agency because there is no overhead to pay.

On the other hand, corporate clients will pay more to an agency because they believe they are getting a proven, higher-quality product, and because they don't want (or don't know how) to find a teacher on their own.

In the end, I believe the best solution is one that takes a long-term view. Work with the agencies for a period of time and establish yourself and your reputation and learn the market. If you do this part properly, you'll have no trouble going out on your own when you're ready. The clients will be waiting for you, you'll have a proven track record with good references, and you can charge more than those who are where you are now.

And you can be proud of yourself for being a cut above average, both professionally and morally. As Warren Buffett is fond of saying, there is enough money to be made in the middle of the road. You don't have to look in the ditches.

.

[Yu]

When I was taking Chinese classes a teacher at the school offered to give me private lessons at a discounted price.

Dont try to live by western standards here because they just simply do not apply. Find out what is standard here and follow it.

[tony lee]

Pretty simple isn't it?

You are either ethical and honest or you are not, and in either case, opinions of others are irrelevant

[grwit]

Does your contract with the training centre mention anything about not working for other companies/schools as many contracts have this clause.

The contract with my university states that I cannot freelance without their permission. Last year I found outside work and they said it was ok for me to do that. So its not like they are trying to stop me. They just want to know about it first. Fair enough considering they are paying for my accomodation and living expenses and airfairs.

My advise... Talk to the training centre about this offer and see what they say. you mentioned that the extra work for the company will not affect your work at the training centre so try and do both. But I agree ablout the low offer. It may seem good to you to get 50%more pay from the company. Tell them you want more. This is china!!! Bargin for every possible dollar you can earn! If they want/need you badly enough then they will pay more than their original offer.