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Gorm
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 87
Location: SoCal
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 Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:51 am Post subject: Process of Elimination |
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I would like tips on how to go about finding the best position (re: best pay, working hours, holidays, conditions, location, etc), whether via online ads, in-person interviews, observations, et al.
Thanks. |
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saint57
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1221
Location: Beyond the Dune Sea
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| This should be a quick thread. Eliminate everything. Your first job will most likely be crap. Enjoy! |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 1:06 am Post subject: |
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1. Pick a country.
2. Go to that country.
3. Get your first job at that country
[2 and 3 are often reversed in order]
4. Work hard and learn your craft in that country while developing contacts
5. use those contacts to get a better job
6 repeat steps 4~6 ad nauseam.
| saint57 wrote: |
| This should be a quick thread. Eliminate everything. Your first job will most likely be crap. Enjoy! |
His name is "gorm". It means 'idiot' (it's British English). As in "You great gorm!". He's either trolling, or more probably, fully aware that he's clueless about this type of thing and just asking in the off chance that he's missing something. |
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Gorm
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 87
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 1:29 am Post subject: |
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Basically my question was whether or not it's really best to just go and look for a job or to accept one online. I didn't think that was too hard to understand. 
| saint57 wrote: |
| This should be a quick thread. Eliminate everything. Your first job will most likely be crap. Enjoy! |
Well I have a degree and am working on my TESOL certification, if that counts for anything. I also have a few contacts abroad. I take all advice with a grain of salt, but thought it would be good to get as much advice as possible before making a definite decision.
| Quote: |
| His name is "gorm". It means 'idiot' (it's British English). As in "You great gorm!". He's either trolling, or more probably, fully aware that he's clueless about this type of thing and just asking in the off chance that he's missing something. |
That's interesting that gorm means idiot in Britain. Which dialect would that be in? Gorm (original Old Norse form, Gormur) is a popular name throughout Scandinavia and the Nordic countries. It is also the name of the first king of Denmark, who is my ancestor. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| Gorm wrote: |
Basically my question was whether or not it's really best to just go and look for a job or to accept one online. I didn't think that was too hard to understand.
| saint57 wrote: |
| This should be a quick thread. Eliminate everything. Your first job will most likely be crap. Enjoy! |
Well I have a degree and am working on my TESOL certification, if that counts for anything. I also have a few contacts abroad. I take all advice with a grain of salt, but thought it would be good to get as much advice as possible before making a definite decision. |
If you've never been overseas, it would probably be better to get a job and then go to the country. You'd be better off getting a job from a job web site that is specific to recruiting for that country, though. You could look into the major chain companies (AEON etc in Japan- you've missed the deadline for JET by a long shot) and start posting on the board for the specific country you want to go to.
ETA
A degree is pretty much assumed in a lot of countries. It really is the basic requirement. A TESOL certtificate can mean anything from a fabuloso hour on the internet or "40hours" in class (usually this means that it takes place over the course of a weekend) to a full time year or more at a university studying SLA, ESL/EFL methodologies, high level descriptive grammars (with an assumption that people already know prescriptive grammar(s) to a reasonably high level) and areas within linguistcs. The latter is what I did. Unfortunately, because they are all called "certificate" it leads to a lot of confusion and that can partially explain why so many quick fly-by-night groups can get away with saying things like "a Certificate in TESOL is a ticket to a great job in many countries". A Certificate can be, but a 40hour deal most likely won't be.
| Gorm wrote: |
| Quote: |
| His name is "gorm". It means 'idiot' (it's British English). As in "You great gorm!". He's either trolling, or more probably, fully aware that he's clueless about this type of thing and just asking in the off chance that he's missing something. |
That's interesting that gorm means idiot in Britain. Which dialect would that be in? Gorm (original Old Norse form, Gormur) is a popular name throughout Scandinavia and the Nordic countries. It is also the name of the first king of Denmark, who is my ancestor. |
Pretty much all of them in England. It's definately used throughout the north (of Engliand). But along with gorm (You great gorm!) , is gormless (you gormless idiot!), which actually means pretty much the same thing even though it sounds like the opposite.
When I think of a gorm, it's someone standing there with their mouth slack and gaping, eyes wide open and shoulders sort of slumped forward like...like... well, like a great gorm.  |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Basically my question was whether or not it's really best to just go and look for a job or to accept one online. I didn't think that was too hard to understand. |
Sorry, not so obvious to some of us.
To answer your original question as best as I can...
1. Think of whatever countries (yes, plural) that you think you might entertain living and working. Perhaps a region of a continent might be more suitable if you can't pick a specific country.
2. Learn as much as you can about those places. This will consume a large amount of your time, and it will involve a personal Internet search, reading tons of books, and discussing things with people on discussion groups like this.
3. Narrow down the geography as best as you can. THEN, start talking about the teaching profession to forums precisely like this one. Find out what is available for someone in your educational and experiential background (and with whatever goals you have set for improving it). To say "teaching English" is pretty vague because it can encompass so many areas: university, mainstream K-12, international schools, cram schools, conversation schools, business schools, private teaching, your own business or partnership, living from visa to visa vs. getting a spouse visa or permanent residency, etc.
4. Once you have amassed all of this information in #3, you will have 2 piles of info: one that describes the cultural situation in a few countries, and one that describes the financial situation for teaching in those countries. Sort out the ones you want. Perhaps even pay a visit to a few if you have the time and money. (No one said this was going to be easy since your question was so general without naming a country.)
5. Choose and be prepared for the unexpected and for the options of moving again.
P.S. If you simply want to know whether it's "better" to look for work from your home country or from within the country of your choice for teaching, it's still not that easy to answer. "Better" means different things to different people.
A. Can you afford to travel somewhere and spend 2-3 months looking for a job, followed by a month of waiting for your first paycheck?
B. Can you travel there during the peak hiring season?
C. If you can't answer yes to either A or B, then you are pretty much relegated to staying at home and searching online for the few places that come to your home country and recruit (or you could be a real trusting soul with the even fewer places that do phone interviews). |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Where are you getting your TESOL certification? Once you've figured out where in the world you want to go, you could use them to get leads on schools and possibly even set up interviews.
d |
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saint57
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1221
Location: Beyond the Dune Sea
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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This should be a quick thread. Eliminate everything. Your first job will most likely be crap. Enjoy!
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I understood you perfectly and I thought my answer was clear. Even if you don't think your first job is crap at the time, trust me it is. Degree + TESOL, I am in absolute awe of your proven ability to teach ESL. |
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Gorm
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 87
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advice guys. Actually, I want to teach in either Korea or Japan - I know living is cheaper in Korea, but what about xenophobia? My friends have said it can be bad in some places (maybe even in Seoul, I don't know). Also, I don't like the idea of being isolated outside a major city, but if the city is large enough maybe it wouldn't be too bad...I know this is all so general; I just want to make a wise choice. Needless to say I've been researching ESL since I signed up here (Sep 04).
| saint57 wrote: |
| Quote: |
This should be a quick thread. Eliminate everything. Your first job will most likely be crap. Enjoy!
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I understood you perfectly and I thought my answer was clear. Even if you don't think your first job is crap at the time, trust me it is. Degree + TESOL, I am in absolute awe of your proven ability to teach ESL. |
I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else, what are you trying to prove to us? |
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Gorm
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 87
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| denise wrote: |
Where are you getting your TESOL certification? Once you've figured out where in the world you want to go, you could use them to get leads on schools and possibly even set up interviews.
d |
I'm doing it through my university. Honestly I wouldn't want to go through the university though - it's not exactly my cup of tea to get all this schooling (which I have to pay for later) and do volunteer work or work in a sweat shop for what I could earn flipping burgers -- so for me, it's about the money and location. I hope that doesn't narrow my choices down too much. I have known people who have made a fortune even without a degree though, so I guess one never knows...
My degree is in Music Performance so I'm qualified (here) to teach at a music academy, teach privately, etc. Would that be something I could possibly do overseas as well? Would it be legal? Are there such academies in East Asia? Would it be worth the money/effort to check into? |
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saint57
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1221
Location: Beyond the Dune Sea
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else, what are you trying to prove to us?
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I'm trying to prove that you can't get a leg up on everyone. If there were an answer to your question I'd give it to you. I worked in Korea before. Actually my first job was there. The only useful information I can give you is look at Pusan. It's Korea's second biggest city but the best place to live. I won't change my opinion that there is no way around getting bruised on your first job. |
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Malsol
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Your first job will probably constitute the best education you will ever receive, on the job training.
In Asia your first job will probably be a nightmare no matter how careful you are. You simply must experience it to learn about it.
Each job will get better because you will get wiser.
So jump into the water with any first job and swim - swim - swim. That is what the rest of us did. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Actually, I want to teach in either Korea or Japan |
I suggest that you post your questions in the Japan forum, where I'm usually found. Please provide enough background info to avoid the flamers. Most of us are nice people once you give us a chance. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I know living is cheaper in Korea, but what about xenophobia? |
As you are probably beginning to realize, that is nothing compared to the treatment you will get from your fellow TEFLers.
You might wish to consider whether you really want to start a career that produces so many bitter old farts with an inadequacy complex.
If you still do, I would suggest your next step is to ask on the country forums for the specific place you are interested in. The answer is likely to vary a lot from country to country. |
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khmerhit
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 1874
Location: Reverse Culture Shock Unit
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Bitter? Surely you are jokin, Signor Jones!
I recommend the OP take the plunge and go to
cambodia--try it and see  |
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