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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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 Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: the crash of the taiwan dollar |
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| 58,000NT is now worth......$2000 CDN? Huh? What happened? Hardly worth going to Taiwan anymore with this currency situation. Might as well be in Korea making 2.8 million won ($40,000 CDN a year) plus a free apartment. This sucks. There go my plans to return to the island. NT dollar's worthless now, no point. |
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jonks
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 1240
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: the crash of the taiwan dollar |
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| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| 58,000NT is now worth......$2000 CDN? Huh? What happened? Hardly worth going to Taiwan anymore with this currency situation. Might as well be in Korea making 2.8 million won ($40,000 CDN a year) plus a free apartment. This sucks. There go my plans to return to the island. NT dollar's worthless now, no point. |
Jason if you are able to make 2.8 in Korea then I am led to believe that you have an MA in TEFL/TESOL. If not - think again.
2 - 2.2 will be your limit (not including any extras made from privates).
Also, if it is the case that you have an MA (in a related field), you would be accepting a seriously crap job at just 58 K per month.
I find your post a bit perplexing.
Hmmm - also you are obviously only thinking of the money and nothing else. Have you taught in both countries before (I have). A lot of people don't like teaching in Korea for reasons of 'personal preferences'.
I taught in Korea for three years - two in Seoul and one in Taejon. I've also taught in Taiwan (going on three years now) and IMHO - Taiwan shits all over Korea.
Even if I was getting paid half the amount (in Taiwan as opposed to Korea) I would still choose Taiwan, five times on weekdays and twice on the weekend. |
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Serious_Fun
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 1171
Location: terra incognita
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: the crash of the taiwan dollar |
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| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| ...58,000NT is now worth......$2000 CDN? ....Hardly worth going to Taiwan anymore with this currency situation.... |
yes: 1.00 CAD = 28.3447 TWD as of my reply....
But: this is because the CAD is getting stronger, is it not? The Taiwan Dollar is not crashing...
It is the US Dollar that is sliding ..31.5 NT will get you an Amerikan dollar this morning. |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: the crash of the taiwan dollar |
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| Quote: |
Jason if you are able to make 2.8 in Korea then I am led to believe that you have an MA in TEFL/TESOL. If not - think again.
2 - 2.2 will be your limit (not including any extras made from privates).
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Not necessarily. I was over there in '99 working at a Wonderland and I was getting 1.6 million a month base. After all the overtime, my monthly cheques were around 2.4 million. I figure with a base of 2.2 I could easily hit 2.8 or higher with OT. As a rule I didn't teach privates in SK even though I could have (was offered on repeated occasions)
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Also, if it is the case that you have an MA (in a related field), you would be accepting a seriously crap job at just 58 K per month.
I find your post a bit perplexing.
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58K seems to be the median for cram schools on the island. It hasn't changed much since I was there it seems. What sort of jobs are available on Taiwan for people with MAs? I found a bunch of university jobs in Cambodia for around $1400 a month US that just require a BA degree and a native speaker.
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Hmmm - also you are obviously only thinking of the money and nothing else. Have you taught in both countries before (I have). A lot of people don't like teaching in Korea for reasons of 'personal preferences'.
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Yup I've taught in both. Only thing I really liked more about Taiwan was the weather. Korean winters are too cold for me. |
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jonks
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 1240
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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If you've worked in both countries why are you offering such hogswallop!
This is not only 'apples and oranges' it's 'sheep eating oranges' and 'goats eating apples'.
One thing (for example) you mention overtime. If you did overtime in Taiwan, one would similarly expect one's wages to increase.
Where do you get:
1.6 + overtime = 2.4 (in 1999)
to
(dunno) + duuuughh I think I might be working overtime (in 2006) = 2.8?
If the last time you were in Korea was:
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| I was over there in '99 |
and you think it is still the same, then I suggest you put your head back in the sand for another 7 years.
It's not.
PS: I here you can make quite good money as a mercenary in Iraq... |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| jonks wrote: |
If you've worked in both countries why are you offering such hogswallop!
This is not only 'apples and oranges' it's 'sheep eating oranges' and 'goats eating apples'.
One thing (for example) you mention overtime. If you did overtime in Taiwan, one would similarly expect one's wages to increase.
Where do you get:
1.6 + overtime = 2.4 (in 1999)
to
(dunno) + duuuughh I think I might be working overtime (in 2006) = 2.8? |
you're right, my calculations are off. If 1.6 + overtime =2.4, then 2.2 + overtime would be around 3.0. Sorry math is not my strong point. There was no overtime in Taiwan when I was there, but we were offered extra jobs in other schools by the parent school. I didn't do this since teaching in Taiwan was much more involved than teaching in Korea. I would have burnt myself out teaching kindy in the morning and then school age in the afternoons. In Korea it was possible to teach 12 classes a day, then teach privates, and not really feel it.
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| If the last time you were in Korea was: |
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| I was over there in '99 |
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and you think it is still the same, then I suggest you put your head back in the sand for another 7 years.
It's not. |
My head wasn't in the sand, i was doing a couple of grad degrees. From what I can see from the job ads for Korea (salary plus overtime) it looks similar to when I was there last. I remember that I ended up with 12 classes a day because our school couldn't keep teachers (they kept leaving) and there was no one else available to take the shifts. The idea seemed to be to pick a crappy school that no one could stand to work at and then stick it out for a year and you could make tons of money. If I found a school that many teachers were quitting and running from, I would immediately contact them and get a contract. That was the game when I was there anyway........
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| PS: I here you can make quite good money as a mercenary in Iraq... |
I have three degrees and experience in two career fields. Why in God's name would I want to do that? |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 1:28 am Post subject: Re: the crash of the taiwan dollar |
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Jonks you are barking up the right tree with your comments. Good observations skills.
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| Yup I've taught in both. Only thing I really liked more about Taiwan was the weather. Korean winters are too cold for me. |
Yeah but you only worked in Taiwan for a matter of months at one single school in the south of the island and this was at least a few years ago now.
I think that jonks is also correct in pointing out the bias in your post where you compare a pretty un-exciting Taiwan basic wage with what is possibly a pretty good wage in Korea plus benefits. Hardly an even playing field now is it!
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| I have three degrees and experience in two career fields. Why in God's name would I want to do that? |
Well what the hell are you looking at starting wages for in buxibans and cram schools. If your qualifications are in education then you should be chasing the career positions in universities and international schools. If your qualifications are in some other field then why not pursue your career there. I don't get why you are considering basic wages that are pretty much offered to recent graduates with nothing more to offer than the fact that they have a degree and can speak English. |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:25 am Post subject: Re: the crash of the taiwan dollar |
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| Quote: |
| I think that jonks is also correct in pointing out the bias in your post where you compare a pretty un-exciting Taiwan basic wage with what is possibly a pretty good wage in Korea plus benefits. Hardly an even playing field now is it! |
well back in 2002 when i was teaching on Taiwan, 58,000NT was worth about $3000 CDN. So it is a rather large drop in value. Korean wages seem to hover around 2.2 million won nowadays for a fresh faced uni grad with no experience other than the fact that he/she can speak English, so my quote wasn't too far off. 2.2 million won is $2610 CDN so it still seems to beat Taiwan by $600 or so, which didn't used to be the case. The NT seems to have taken an aweful beating.
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| I have three degrees and experience in two career fields. Why in God's name would I want to do that? |
| Quote: |
| Well what the hell are you looking at starting wages for in buxibans and cram schools. If your qualifications are in education then you should be chasing the career positions in universities and international schools. If your qualifications are in some other field then why not pursue your career there. I don't get why you are considering basic wages that are pretty much offered to recent graduates with nothing more to offer than the fact that they have a degree and can speak English. |
I was more looking at the value of the NT dollar relative to what it used to be worth when i taught there. The basic salary of an ESL teacher with no experience and a BA degree was around $40,000 CDN when I was last on the island. It is now around $29,000 CDN. I am just remarking that this is quite the huge drop. It puts Taiwan more in the ranks with Thailand and Cambodia than with Korea and Japan. The big three money places seem to have become the big two, Korea and Japan.
Last edited by jason_seeburn on Thu May 18, 2006 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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markholmes
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 661
Location: Wengehua
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| CAD$29,000 in Thailand? You've got to be joking. It's roughly half of that. |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| The phenomenon you are noticing is not the NT dollar's decline so much as the Canadian dollar's climb versus a lot of other world currencies. The NT hasn't collapsed; the CAD is just soaring recently. Yes, it has had an impact on some peoples' decisions about whether or not to come here. However, you should know that you can easily beat 58k per month in Taiwan. |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:05 am Post subject: |
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So, to recap:
* There is no 'crash of the Taiwan dollar'
* Seeburn has problems with maths
* Seeburn's advice is years out of date, and inaccurate
* This thread was useless until more informed posters contributed (thanks clark, markholmes, TaoyuanSteve, jonks, Serious_Fun)
Another Seeburn classic. |
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jonks
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 1240
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:32 am Post subject: |
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Taiwan is a great place to come and work (and save). You can do that here. Korea is definitely a better option if you are only interested in how many wons (or NTs) you can take out of the country.
If you are looking for places in Asia to make a buck then I would offer (roughly in terms of saving capablility and ranked accordingly...)
1. Korea
2. Japan
3. Taiwan
4. Vietnam
5. China
This is my humble opinion - if anyone disagrees please say so.
BUt Seeburn, one should at least strive to stipulate one's criterion... an even playing field so to speak.
I've ranked the countries in terms of what an 'entry-level' teacher might hope to make (and more accurately - save). Not a distortion of god knows how many factors as you have offered... |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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BUt Seeburn, one should at least strive to stipulate one's criterion... an even playing field so to speak.
I've ranked the countries in terms of what an 'entry-level' teacher might hope to make (and more accurately - save). Not a distortion of god knows how many factors as you have offered... |
to answer everyone at once, CDN dollar has appreciated around 25 cents since 2002. In 2002 you could get around $3000 CDN for 58,000NT. You can now get roughly $2000 CDN for 58,000 NT. 2000 x .25 = $500. So the NT should be worth roughly $500 CDN less now than it was in 2002. It is actually worth around $1000 CDN less. Contrast this with the Korean won, in 1999 1 million won was worth roughly $950 CDN. It is now currently worth $1,180 CDN. So while the won seems to have kept pace with the appreciation of the CDN dollar, the NT dollar has not done so, it has actually lost value, plus been hammered by the appreciation of the CDN money. I can't see how it would even be possible to send home money from Taiwan with the currency in its current state. At the most you could send home like $1000 a month if you lived like a pauper. When I was there I was getting a relatively modest salary of 63,500 NT a month and I was sending home $2000 CDN a month, every month I was there. 63,500 NT is currently worth $2,229 CDN. So even if I managed to live on almost no money at all, I couldn't send home what I was sending. My yearly salary in CDN dollars was 38,700 in 2002. In today's NT it would be $26,748. So it does look like something's happened.
Last edited by jason_seeburn on Thu May 18, 2006 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| jason_seeburn wrote: |
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BUt Seeburn, one should at least strive to stipulate one's criterion... an even playing field so to speak.
I've ranked the countries in terms of what an 'entry-level' teacher might hope to make (and more accurately - save). Not a distortion of god knows how many factors as you have offered... |
to answer everyone at once, CDN dollar has appreciated around 15 cents since 2002. In 2002 you could get around $3000 CDN for 58,000NT. You can now get roughly $2000 CDN for 58,000 NT. 2000 x .15 = $300. So the NT should be worth roughly $300 CDN less now than it was in 2002. It is actually worth around $1000 CDN less. Contrast this with the Korean won, in 1999 1 million won was worth roughly $950 CDN. It is now currently worth $1,180 CDN. So while the won seems to have kept pace with the appreciation of the CDN dollar, the NT dollar has not done so, it has actually lost value, plus been hammered by the appreciation of the CDN money. I can't see how it would even be possible to send home money from Taiwan with the currency in its current state. At the most you could send home like $1000 a month if you lived like a pauper. When I was there I was getting a relatively modest salary of 63,500 NT a month and I was sending home $2000 CDN a month, every month I was there. 63,500 NT is currently worth $2,229 CDN. So even if I managed to live on almost no money at all, I couldn't send home what I was sending. My yearly salary in CDN dollars was 38,700 in 2002. In today's NT it would be $26,748. So it does look like something's happened. |
exchange rate in 2002 - NT$22/1 CAD
exchange rate today - NT$28/1 CAD
your math is way off my friend. i was in taiwan in late 2002-2003, and in 2002, the exchange rate was approx NT$22 - $CAD (see link below). in late 2002, NT$58000 would have only been about $2600CAD (58,000/22), not $3000 as you quote above. today, 3-4 years later, with an exchange rate of NT$28/CAD, NT$58000 will get you about $2050.00CAD (58,000/twenty-eight). so where you indicate that an NT$58000 salary is worth about $1000.00CAD less now than it was in 2002, the difference between 2002 and now is actually only about $550.00 CAD.
http://www.x-rates.com/d/TWD/CAD/hist2002.html
now if you were getting $38700CAD annual salary in 2002 in taiwan, your salary must have been about NT$72,000/month. 72,000 x 12 = NT$840,000 per year/22 = $39,000CAD. today, that same monthly salary is worth about $30,857CAD (72,000 x 12 = NT$840,000/twenty-eight), not $26,748CAD as you now claim.
as has already been stated, the taiwan dollar hasnt depreciated so much as the canadian dollar has gotten stronger vs the US $$, the usual benchmark for comparison. the situation in taiwan could hardly be called grim.
7969
Last edited by 7969 on Thu May 18, 2006 3:43 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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I was also here in 2002 and remember the exchange rate being 22:1 for NTWD to CAD.
You do have a point, though, Seeburn. The soaring Canuck buck and foreign exchange rates are important to consider.
I think the average teacher can do a lot better than 58k per month, though, with a little effort. However, if Korea looks like the better deal for your future endeavors, it might be the right place to go. |
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