Job Discussion Forums

[Larry Paradine]

I introduce this topic with some trepidation because the last time I brought it up, about two years ago in the general discussion forum using the wider ambit of native L1 speaking teachers throughout the world, it was promptly hijacked by zealots of the "no L1 in class under any circumstances" persuasion and subsequently turned into a venue for personal vendettas between users who regard each others' deviations from the TEFL holy writ as sacrilege. This time, confining the scope of the inquiry to Russia, I think I should start by trying to make it clear what the question is about, or at least not about. It is NOT about the use by native English speaking teachers of Russian in the classroom. The arguments for and against have been trotted out and exhaustively argued infinitum over the years (for those who are interested, back numbers of eslcafe.com forum tend to be dominated by diatribes from the antis, the pro view has been fairly recently put forward in the visarus.co.uk forum.) Will anyone who feels the urge to renew warfare on that topic kindly start your own string. It is NOT even about the wisdom or folly of using native Russian speaking teachers in tandem with Native English speakers. This inquiry presupposes the existence of a system where Russian and English native speakers share the same groups of students , as is the case in many EFL schools in Russia (e.g. in Samara). I'm aware that some of you out there are as opposed to the participation of L1 teachers as you are to Native English speakers using L1, but what I'm seeking is a reasoned discussion of how to make the best use of an existing system of shared classes. Your views on aspects such as a clear division of responsibilities (e.g. whether Russians should teach only grammar and English speakers teach only conversation, and whether the role of Russian teachers should be phased out at or above intermediate level) will be welcome. Would the gentleman who used my previous string on this topic to voice his opinion that male Russian teachers should be employed as drivers and bodyguards for the English speakers and that female Russian teachers be limited to cooking for everyone and providing creature comforts for male English speakers kindly abstain from the debate. Over to the rest of you.

[jpvanderwerf2001]

Hi Larry,
While your OP was a bit intimidating (so many WORDS, so few paragraphs , I think the topic is an intriguing one.
An intro: I'm a native speaking teacher in Vladivostok. I am the only native teacher in a school with 13 L1 teachers (12 Russians and an Armenian).
That being said, my responses in italics:

It is NOT even about the wisdom or folly of using native Russian speaking teachers in tandem with Native English speakers. This inquiry presupposes the existence of a system where Russian and English native speakers share the same groups of students , as is the case in many EFL schools in Russia (e.g. in Samara).

This is the system I am currently working within (and have been for two years).

Your views on aspects such as a clear division of responsibilities (e.g. whether Russians should teach only grammar and English speakers teach only conversation, and whether the role of Russian teachers should be phased out at or above intermediate level) will be welcome.

Ok. You pretty much nailed it. In the classes I share with an L1 teacher, most of the grammar (especially introduction of grammatical structure) is taught by my L1 colleagues. I find this a most appealing situation for a few simple reasons:
* While I obviously find grammar useful, I personally find it a bit tedious to teach. I am able to make grammar interesting, but my preference lies with spoken communication, pronunciation, vocabulary (which of course includes some grammar) and cultural instruction/insight;
* L1 teachers (in our case Russian speakers) tend to have an intimate knowledge with English grammar; I doubt this is groundbreaking news. While much English instruction at the school-level in Russia is borderline horrific, the grammar tends to well-taught (perhaps a result of the Russian language). For this reason, I usually only clarify specific questions students have about the grammar L1 teachers present;
* The school did not hire me to teach grammar. I am fully aware that my employers (and DOS) expect me to bring something other than grammar expertise to the classroom. Being the only native speaker, the school (and the students) want something else from me, most of which I mentioned in the first point.

I'd like to point out that by NO means do I feel L1 teachers should be resigned to only teach grammar (nor that native speakers shouldn't teach grammar). This under-utilizes a valuable resource and, not only that, robs the students of another perspective on classroom topics and the English language in general (other accents being but one example).

I believe that L1 teachers in Russia play a vital and serviceable role in the classroom; this is especially true with the lack of native speaking teachers in Russia in general and the RFE (Far East) specifically.

This is perhaps beside the point, but if I were to open a language school in Russia with, say, 15 teachers, my ideal would be 3 native speaking and 12 L1 teachers. (Geez, nice sentence.)


Would the gentleman who used my previous string on this topic to voice his opinion that male Russian teachers should be employed as drivers and bodyguards for the English speakers and that female Russian teachers be limited to cooking for everyone and providing creature comforts for male English speakers kindly abstain from the debate. Over to the rest of you.

I imagine this person is popular in their teachers' room...

[Larry Paradine]

Thanks for your reasoned and reasonable reply jp. I find myself so completely in agreement with you that I've nothing to add. Except, perhaps, that the ideal is seldom commensurate with the reality. Russian teachers tend to dread losing face by making mistakes when speaking English and often sidestep this hazard by keeping silent whenever there's someone present (a native English speaker or a Russian student, one of those smart alecs whose sole purpose in attending lessons is to trip the teacher up) who may notice the error. The best and most conscientious Russian teacher I worked with in Samara (yes, Natalie, I mean you), would only teach grammar and written work because she had it firmly embedded in her mind that only native English speakers could organise oral activities; as a result, she condemned herself to grammatical drudgery and reinforced the prejudice against using L1 teachers for conversation practice.

I'm now working for a different company in a different city (Oxford Crown in Kazan) where I have exclusive teaching control over all levels, from IELTS preparation to teaching the alphabet to beginners, and I find it much more stimulating and challenging than delegating the nuts and bolts stuff to L1 teachers, but I may encounter considerable difficulties somewnere along the line that will make me nostalgic for the good ol' days when I could always ask my Russian co-teacher to cover up for my failure to get something over. Time will tell.

[rusmeister]

[jpvanderwerf2001]

Larry and Rus,

I have never personally had to deal with a situation where the L1 teachers resent my presence (or perhaps I'm just that dense ). However, I could see where an "inferiority" complex might rear its head. I think one thing to consider in this regard is the attitude many native-speaking teachers take towards their L1 colleagues.
I have seen instances where native-speaking teachers have a condescending attitudes towards non-native instructors. (I'm quite sure that the person you referred to at the end of your OP, Larry, was one such type.) Of course, if a native teacher comes barreling into a classroom/teacher's room/school as if their "waste don't stink", treat the other teachers as lowly minions, then it stands to reason that their colleagues (L1 or otherwise) will be put off.
The best way to avoid this, for me, is to appreciate that L1 teachers (or any teacher, for that matter) do have unique skills that they bring to the classroom, acknowledge those skills and work as a team; I like to think that I treat all colleagues as equals, and, in my experience, they reciprocate.
If one treats L1 teachers as "lesser" and/or has a condescending attitude towards them, then how would one expect them to act?
Respect both ways is key!
(By the way, I'm not directing the negative points at either of you, simply stating my general viewpoint of intra-school, teacher-teacher relationships.)
Cheers!

[Larry Paradine]

jp, I respect my Russian colleagues as much as you do, and I'm sure that rusmeister does as well. The example I gave was of a hardworking, conscientious and well liked and respected Russian teacher who is as capable of initiating and leading class discussions as any native English speaker but who is trapped in a stereotypical view of the lesser role of L1 teachers.

[spiral78]

In my more limited experience working with Russian students (5 years in Canada, 3 months in Moscow), one of the difficulties I experienced was their reluctance to speak English with each other in the classroom.

Ultimately, I've always been able to get past this, but I'm wondering whether a Russian co-teacher wouldn't also be a valuable resource in terms of setting the atmosphere to facilitate more comfortable speaking of English among the students.

Anyway, I think having Russian teachers could often be a really valuable resource.

[rusmeister]

Well, what's being talked about is a more complex problem - the psychology of a teacher having to work next to one that speaks (and by perception does the job) a whole lot better than she does - and for her it's her career and the only thing she's qualified at - she's relatively easily replaceable.
Plus, if she has private students (her source of more sizeable income) and she loses some of them to you, she's going to like you even less.

Even showing major respect and friendliness won't help much against that.

[spiral78]

Yeah, I can see the complexity better now. If the perceived value of a teacher (or even the real, concrete value in terms of pay/replacability) is greater or lesser than a coworker, the dynamics do become really difficult.

I suppose some division of labor, so that each teacher becomes a 'specialist' in some area might be a little help - which I think is the point with having the Russian speaker teach grammar and/or lower levels.

And, for sure, no poaching of private students!!

It's a difficult situation, which I suppose would really have to come down to the working relationship between the two teachers involved, wouldn't it?

[rusmeister]

[spiral78]

True. Bummer. Maybe limit your private students to adults only? Not the best business option for the native speaker, but at least to be certain that no poaching is going on...

[rusmeister]

That doesn't really answer my question of whether it IS poaching. And if you are a resident, and not on visas, and plan on living in the same town indefinitely, then it wouldn't make any sense to limit yourself (for example, cut your income in half) out of fear that maybe somewhere you might be stepping on toes. In any event, there is a practical limit to the impact of one teacher on a local economy - how many people can they teach, anyway?

[spiral78]

I'm not sure of any way to address the issue of 'poaching' other than directly with the Russian teacher(s) who might be affected. I suppose I'd consider it relatively important to do everything I could to maintain a positive working relationship with them - they are fellow-teachers, after all.

I'll go once again out on a small limb here. What about dividing the private tutoring along some kind of rational lines (even if this doesn't necessarily apply to the regular working context), by trying to agree that the Russian teachers take private students at int/lower levels, and the native English speaker takes only the advanced students? Surely over the proper amount of vodka and nice food some salubrious arrangement could be reached...

[rusmeister]

[jpvanderwerf2001]

Well, what's being talked about is a more complex problem - the psychology of a teacher having to work next to one that speaks (and by perception does the job) a whole lot better than she does - and for her it's her career and the only thing she's qualified at - she's relatively easily replaceable.

This could be a complex problem. I am aware of the inferiority complex that could creep in; however, I've never experienced many problems with it. My Russian colleagues, I think, appreciate the different skills that native speakers bring to the fore. That being said, I don't think that any of them harbor any ill-will simply because I happened to have been born and raised in the US.
As a matter of fact, I sense that my colleagues attempt to raise the level of their own teaching, as they might feel pressure from students (and our DOS) to do so. Or perhaps I'm living in La-La Land.

Plus, if she has private students (her source of more sizeable income) and she loses some of them to you, she's going to like you even less.

Again, if the specter of a native speaker stealing your students is nigh then I suspect the best defense is to become a better teacher; the hope, then, is that students won't want to leave you! Of course, if a student insists on only having a native teacher--and will pay what you ask--then there's nothing we as said teachers can do about that, is there? You just have to hope that they hold you personally responsible for possessing a skill they don't have. If they do, why worry?

Even showing major respect and friendliness won't help much against that.

It can't completely alleviate it, perhaps, but it certainly won't hurt! For instance, I often recommend my Russian colleagues to students, as my time-table is saturated; there are only so many hours in a day!