Job Discussion Forums

[thedude72]

I have been in Korea for over 8 months now and am considering Japan for my next contract. While Korea is great for saving money, I've had an overall mediocre experience so far. I've decided I don't just want to think about the money and would like to go to a place where I feel I may have a better experience.

I want to hear from those who have taught in both Korea and Japan which place is better in terms of overall quality of life. How would you compare Korean women to Japanese women. Are Japanese women as xenophobic as Korean women seem to be? Also, are schools more professional in Japan. In Korea they are anything but professional from what I've seen and heard.

Also, what is the foreigner community like in Japan? In Korea 99% of socialization revolves around drinking. Is Japan any different? What do foreigners do in Japan besides hang out in western bars and get wasted like here in Korea?

What about Japanese food? I dont really like sushi, so are there other good food options?

Is the pollution bad in Japan like here in Korea?

Thanks for any information you can provide.

[Glenski]

Sounds like your "experience" is pretty women-focused. No offense.

You're going to start out teaching at the entry level, which means a salary of about 250,000 yen/month before deductions, and half of that will go to basic necessities. Depending on where you live and your lifestyle (including dating, if that's a priority), you can save zero to nearly all of the remainder. I would guess that the average newbie here manages to save about 60,000-90,000 yen/month, barring sightseeing and trips home and any outstanding debts like student loans.

"Mediocre" experience in teaching is all dependent on the luck of the draw here and on your attitude. Conversation schools are pretty much the same for teaching format, but what seems to make or break teachers is who runs the place and who the branch managers are. Don't know what you mean by "professional". Could you explain a little? From the little I've heard, managers over there are often unscrupulous types, while that is more often NOT the case here. Exceptions exist, of course. The main point you should realize is that visas here are not owned by your employer, so if you leave a job before the visa expires, you keep the visa and can continue work.

The foreigner community varies considerably. Depends on why you choose to socialize with. Single people tend to drink and party more than married ones. Plenty of bar hoppers here, but you don't have to join in. What else are you interested in for a personal life? People go hiking, go to the gym, watch videos, hold BBQs, ski and snowboard, etc.

Contrary to stereotypes, sushi is not the only food that people eat here. I would again guess that most Japanese don't eat it more than once a month. Lots of rice dishes, noodle dishes, deep-fried foods, etc. Take a look at a web site based on a book called What's What in Japanese Restaurants. http://www.bento.com/tokyofood.html.
In many cities, there are tons of international restaurants, too. And, you don't have to eat out every day. That would be silly and costly anyhow. Cook your own meals in your own way.

I wouldn't know about how bad the pollution is in Korea, so I can't compare. I would guess it's better here.

For more info, look here. http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~jonb/

[AndyH]

Thedude,
I taught in Korea, and after seven months, came to Japan. It was a good decision. Comparing the two countries, I think there are a lot of teachers in Japan who are here because they like the country and are interested in the culture, and/or they find it to be a good way to gain teaching experience. There is plenty of drinking, but a lot less than Korea. Overall, I find most of the other teachers here to be far more professional and mature than their counterparts in Korea.
As for the women, and the people in general, I think you will find the Japanese to be far-less xenophobic than many of the people in Korea.
I never felt "at home" in Korea, but have felt very comfortable here in Japan, and if I thought ESL was a long-term career, I would have no qualms about staying.
I hope this answered some of your questions. Of course, it's only my perspective, so perhaps others will join in. Feel free to ask more questions, and I will try to help.

[ironopolis]

Yeah, I too suspected the use of "xenophobic" was perhaps somewhat euphemistic

I've lived and worked in both places but my experience of Korea wasn't much like you make yours out to be - I drank a bit there now and again but never found that "99% of socialization revolves around drinking" and found plenty to do "besides hang out in western bars and get wasted". And I never found Korean women xenophobic in the usual sense of the word. So I'm not sure how relevant any advice is going to be, but I'll try anyway....

The bottom line is that in either country it's overwhelmingly what YOU make of it. If someone has a bad time in one place, one possible reason is that they're not really cut out for life in a totally different culture (and no shame in that if so) and that it's not realistically going to be much different in another place, also different form their homeland. Impossible to say knowing to little about your particular circumstances, but what you say gives me a hunch this might be the case here.

Korea's enormous EFL jobs market does mean that there are an awful lot of people going there having their first experience of a massively different culture - an experience which many are not ready to make the most of or sometimes anything at all of. I was the same, to be honest, making very little of my first foreign country I lived in - not Korea, it was another European country. I've met quite a few people in Japan that came here from Korea, who were honest enough to admit that they had a better experience of Japan, not necessarily because it was a "better" place per se, but because they were readier to adapt to it than they had been when they went to Korea. This was certainly one factor that helped me enjoy Korea a lot more, being lucky enough to be a bit older and wiser when I went there. So, on the other hand, dunno about your background, but this "2nd better bite of the cherry" factor may apply too.

There are aspects in which I believe Korea would give a better experience and aspects which I think Japan would, depending largely on the individual involved. Personally, I preferred Korea for most but not all things that mattered to me, although that's not to say I'm unhappy in Japan. On a practical level about Japan, I'd echo Glenski's advice above. I'd just add that if you're saving money and sending it home, present exchange rates mean now is very good time to be sending Korean won home, but not such a good time to be sending Japanese yen.

At the end of the day, take internet forums with a pinch of salt as there's a lot of letting off steam moaning about both Korea and Japan (particularly the former) that can misinform as much as inform you. Even better, given the short distance, might be to take a trip to Japan and see for yourself.

[AndyH]

As far as food goes, you can find lots of stuff besides sushi/sashimi. I'm not wild about it either (other than tuna), and have had no problem finding whatever I want, with the exception of GOOD Mexican food. Even when I was in a small city in remote Hokkaido, I put on weight, eating all the foods I wasn't able to consume while I was in Korea. Japanese tend to take their food seriously, and do appreciate other countries' cuisines. You shouldn't have any trouble scrounging decent grub in Japan.

[senza_vavoom]

[nickelgoat]

.....

[ironopolis]

I think the OP is already in Korea, so probably wants info on moving to Japan.

I'd agree that rules often get bent in Korea - for both cultural and historical reasons - but in my experience, if you made the right efforts in your personal relationships with colleagues/boss etc, there was every chance of them being bent in your favour. You do need a bit of awareness of how to get on with people there in order to do this, not easy for a complete newbie, I know.

Never been a particularly big problem, but I sometimes have found it mildly frustrating in Japan that efforts I make here to get on with people I work with seem to bring much less reward than they did in Korea. There, the wrong moves would bring a more noticeably negative reaction than in Japan, but OTOH the right ones would bring much more positive ones than here too.

Although, looking at the original questions here, not very relevant to the OP so I'll shut up now

[stillnosheep]

[sushi]

Public schools are among the best teaching positions in korea. The paye is as high as you get in Japan in some cases and there is no deduction for accomodation either. you actually teach in the public school positions and don't have to parade around like a monkey as you do with the jet and the alt progrmes in Japan

No sitting in staff meetings where you don't understand the language either, and if you happen to have some one who wants to supervise you you can tell them to f--k off. They need you and wont fire you because of it. They are screaming for teachers to fill these positions now. Just check korean jobs wanted on this site. You can negotiate for better conditions as well. Every province in Korea is trying to fill the quota aloted to them, and all will come up short

I read in the Japan times that the powers that be are wanting to emulate what they are doing in Korea in the japanese elementry schools. Too many stone heads in the ministry it seems who are afraid that the students might lose their culture. It was also said that there aren't enough capable teachers in Japan to fill the positions should they be available. Dickhead argument. If they advertise they will find the teachers, and if the japanese teachers and the japanese system pick up their acts the right teachers find the right jobs

university jobs are good positions to have in Korea. the paye might not be as high as it is in japan, but teachers get long paid vacations and supplement their incomes with English camps that paye upwards of Y400,000 for the month. some people do two camps in the break.

Hogwons or academies? No way.

[canuck]

Think about it. Many want to move from Korea to Japan, but not many want to move from Japan to Korea.

[sushi]

Food in Japan is s--t incidently, but it's a cleaner country. karaokes rock too, because all the music you happen to choose comes up. In korea you get a lot of no shows on the English pop songs. Songs are organized according to the singer as well in Japanese karaokes. Ideally though it would be great if you could have korean public school and university work conditions and salaries in Japan.

Camps would be a plus in japan too, but that will never happen, because too much red tape.

[AndyH]

Sushi, I must disagree with your assessment of Japanese food being S.H.I.T. I'm no fan of much of it either, but some of it is quite good, and compared to Korea, I can find a lot more variety here.
I think a lot of potential ESL teachers sell themselves short by not coming here because they assume (incorrectly) that they'll be stuck eating sea urchin, squid pizza, and natto all the time. You can find almost everything here (except decent Mexican food and turkey), and you don't have to eat the stereotypical raw fish and noodles if you don't want to.

[ironopolis]

[AndyH]

The only reason I can see of why someone might want to choose Korea over Japan is the ability to save more money, but that's assuming IF the employeer honors the terms of the contract. When I was in Korea, I had to fight with my employer every month just to get my wages on payday, and I knew plenty of people who didn't get their end-of-year bonus or plane ticket home.
But yeah, for some other unknown reasons, there might be people who enjoy the constant conflict and stress.