Job Discussion Forums

[woza17]

I need some help here. I just started a 5 week contract with junior middle schools,on Saturdays I teach 2 classes, kids ages range from 12-14,class
size 40-60. I have never taught such badly behaved kids,mostly the boys, you know the ones that sit up the back, banging the tables and chairs.
The last teacher warned me but nothing could have prepared me for this.
Each lesson the students are given a form to fill out to evaluate the teacher. I taught them to write "excellent" and "fabulous".
Well I played a trivia quiz, which went down very well but the noise level left me numb and exhausted. Now I am not going to waste my time yelling at them to keep quiet, so I have come up with an idea to use yellow card,warning then red, you are out, just like in soccer with an explanation written on the card, that they are to stand outside the classroom for maybe 10 minutes. I am also thinking to give them grammar exercises during that time because I am sure that they would volunteer to go outside. Some thoughts please
Regards Carol

[klasies]

Carol

Welcome to child teaching in China

I teach at a University, but for two years I have been teaching children on weekends and during the holidays, so I know how you feel. There is no hard and fast way to deal with bad behaviour, suffice to say that you must be firm from day one and continue to be firm all the time. Those little F%&^ers in the back will constantly test you, day in and day out and if you give an inch you are buggered!!!!!!
What I do is if they start their sh it, Is I stop teaching and keep quiet untill there shut up. Normally the rest of the class will tell them to keep quiet eventually. Of course you get the "hard core hollies" that don't care a rats ar se if you keep quiet, so for them, I take them to the principals office and explain that they are misbehaving. If that does not work I arrange an interview with their parents and that sometimes get them to behave. As a last resort I kick them out of my class and they are not allowed to come back, ever. If the school insists that I must let them back I tell them if he comes back, I go! Of course this is extra teaching so I have the right to stop teaching at that school if I want. If it is you normal position then of course, maybe, this is not an option.

Hope this helps.

Andre

[struelle]

[Roger]

A classic expat teacher misallocation! There is no need for such young learners to do "oral" lessons! We never did it at school, and this approach now so common in China only produces counterproductive results!
some of the students may behave themselves more politely with CHinese teachers. I think one reason for their lack of discipline is to do with the difference in teaching styles. They can't switch to a new kind after having been spoon-fed English by a Chinese person for years.
Also, they tend to be more unruly if you only drop in once a week. Their head teacher usually has more clout over them.

Well, I had to labour through middle-school English lessons too, and I resorted to old-fashioned (but oh how much more effectivve) methods of teaching:
I required them to take a notebook and write down notes. We wrote down instructions, grammar rules, drills - finally, they were able to sit still, think and be quiet, and above all, to utter a complete, largely flawless English sentence ("I was born on 5th of May, 1991, I am 6 years old..."). I corrected each and everyhone's notes before I let them off!
I hasten to add this worked in one class in particular. It may, or may not work in your class!

[Minhang Oz]

Carol
While it's no consolation, Australian high school kids give their foreign teachers the same treatment. It's the hormone driven rebellion thing with a touch of racism.
A few high school strategies for ratty kids:
Learn the names of the ringleaders- make sure you've got the pronunciation right- and use them. Have you seen Chinese teachers in action? Get the kid to stand up and give them a very public dressing down. Act angry and shout. You could do this in Swahili and they'd still get the idea: don't try Chinese unless it's very good as you'll only create hilarity. Once the others have seen that, they don't want to get involved so much.
Move the very worst kids right to the front. Keep this as a last option, but they absolutely hate it! Letting them move back at some point in time can be a carrot.
As much as you don't want to, front and centre teaching with a lot of " busy work" will give you some breathing space. While they're working, move around so they know you know what they're doing. Chinese teachers don't generally do this, and it makes the students nervous.
These kids respect the wrong things, but your sanity comes first. Once that's guaranteed, you can get down to teaching.
As a final resort, contact with the student's parents is the ultimate punishment you could hand out, using a cooperative Chinese colleague of course. Once word gets around, no student will cross you again!
These rules are pretty well universal in working with this age group and kind of student.
Good luck!

[wOZfromOZ]

Mozzie's got it right here -

Strangely, ( "strangely", I hear some of you say!!LOL) these rules of MoZs' are a very similar to my code for 2nd year and 1st year uni students who are in the private system.

Like MoZ I'm a 'refurbished' highschool teacher from Aus and his advice is spot-on. The only thing i'd add is that I get every Chinese student I teach to complete an Introductory Information form where they are required to provide me with contact Ph. numbers to their dorms, home phone numbers, mobile phone numbers, e-mail addresses etc.

Like "ET" did back 20 years ago, if you have a problem, "phone home"!!!

Nothing like Mum and Dad getting a phone call on a Sunday night
just after little 'xiao huand di' has returned to school - or uni etc

You can just imagine the change in attitude fresh up on a brand new day!! LOL


BTW

I think 'sunaru''s got a lot to answer for here -
but he's bringing reality to the masses
sounds like first class inservice for the observers!!
keep up the good work guys & girls

wOZfromOZ

[beerdang]

Looking back my old school days, I remebered one teacher used to ask the bad students to come up to the front to answer questions or write words on the board. If they couldn't come with the right answer, the teacher would simply ask them to do that again the next day.
It was repeated public humiliation.

As long as you help them to "learn", it doesn't matter what your approach is and how inhumane it might sound to you. Chinese parents might even appreciate it. I never had a class that had less than 45 students. For that size, the teacher almost had to find some quick ways to turn things around. The chinese education system is more or less elite centered.
Teachers' job is to make sure the best students to get the stuff and go to college. My highschool teachers' promotions and bonus were tied to the percentage of students who got into college and the number of students that went to tier 1 universities.

[arioch36]

Good stuff. Definitely the sooner you install your discipline the quicker you can teach and have fun. Being a big older male who is not afraid to yell helped me on occassion. Dropping their books out the window and playing pin pong with them helped to. But it still did nothing for the class with the smart boys who did nothing. In college, most of these boys have disappeared. Good luck. tell us what works/doesn't work

[Debalky]

I am all too familiar with the "boys at the back" problem in Middle School. After several "freak outs" on my part i finally asked the school for some ways that i might dicipline the little punks. They answered that diciplining the child was out of the question. The schools logic was that 'they paid to be here, so you can't do anything to them'. SO, NO THROWING OUT OF CLASS, NO TAKING THEM TO THE HEADMASTER, AND NO PHYSICAL PUNISHMENTS (plus, i have no tests to give, so they really have no reason to be quiet).
Now, without the above tools, i find the only things that work to be the following:

1- Complete and utter silence coupled with a blank stare at the brats making the noise.

2- Humiliation: explain the word "bribe". Then tell the bad ones how lucky they are to be so stupid, yet get into a good school.

3- Most of the guys at the back like to play basketball. I'm lucky to be a pretty good athlete, and playing hard against them really does earn you some grudging respect. Some hard fouls are not out of the question either.
laters

[Roger]

A general impression from the teaching front in both the West and China:
Unlike in Western countries, contemplative silence is not to be found here. Note the cacophony in the streets, residential blocks, buses - everywhere music and voices all the time, at earsplitting volumes. If I receive a visitor, he or she is likely to turn on MY TV even though we both might not be watching!
In classrooms, students practise reading aloud within earshot of each other. Who can learn anything under such conditions?
Chinese teachers sometimes struggle with their classes too. But on the whole, their teaching is different, and they do not face the same difficulties as we do. They control their classes by rehearsing most of the time, chorussing with students. THis way, the learners have no time being disruptive.
Our approach gives them, perhaps, too much time to think, and they are not used to thinking, so they start up private conversations among themselves.
Unfortunately, I find myself handicapped in that I can't really punish students. My preferred way is to isolate the trouble makers, standing them outside the classroom. When I did this in an elite school the office told me to stop it. Just how I was to handle the students no one was willing or able to say. They did not care about my problems. Finally, some boys got so rowdy one of them had a bleeding nose. I had to abandon the class, to walk that guy to the office - which was deserted! An entire lesson was lost. Oh, the entire semester was a waste of my energy!

[Bertrand]

If you want someone to listen to you then you speak more softly.

[Minhang Oz]

Bertrand, we are talking about middle school classes of forty or more students. If this is where your area of expertise lies, then I'm sure forum members, despite their enforced penury at the hands of the PRC, would happily finance your journey to The Motherland to run some methodology workshops and, dare I hope, teach some demonstration lessons with Carol's [the thread originator's] students. We will watch with interest your "speak softly" theory in practice.

[wOZfromOZ]

Bertrand's atatement is true - it works for me too!

It works with the top students in small groups - that is the highly motivated, engaged, intrinsically well behaved students - these students exist - I've had at least 15 in the past 18months

For the other 1500 it's all about well placed discipline strategies!!

wOZfromOZ

[Bertrand]

[Hamish]