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hlamb · Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 431 Location: Canada

Today we were using sentences like the following in class: I visit her, I write to her or I call her.

My students wanted to know why we don't use "to" for all these situations. I know that in Spanish they do, but I couldn't think of a good reason on the spot. Luckily it was the end of class, so I said we'd discuss it tomorrow. Does anyone know a rule of when to use "to" and when to leave it out?

Thanks!

M@tt · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Location: here and there

there's no rule. the origins go back to latin and german in most cases. i.e. the use of 'to' after some verbs and not others probably has something to do with the cases that were used with the originating verb in german, latin, greek, etc. surely someone will write about 'to' being used for indirect objects, but i think what you're asking is why certain verbs take indirect objects while others take direct objects? it may have been based on a "feeling" at some point but now it is partly arbitrary as case marking will show you if you study german or latin.
i would guess that when new verbs are created in modern english, we also end up using whichever type of object feels more natural.

that's my best guess.
by the way, you can say "write her" and it means the same as "write to her." i probably wouldn't mention that to the students though!

guty · Joined: 10 Apr 2003 Posts: 365 Location: on holiday

in this case 'to' is a preposition, not part of the infinitive of a verb.
I think it is common US usage to omit 'to' and common UK usage to include it with write.
Don't think there is a hard and fast rule
Wouldn't the Spanish be te llamo, le escribo, la visito, etc?

delacosta · Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 325 Location: zipolte beach

It also could be that when they learnt English in high school or wherever, they were taught and memorised the list of verbs as presented in the infinitive form'to visit', 'to eat', etc. I have had whole groups of students who always used to with verbs in all situations, that's what their non English speaking English teachers had taught them to do.

hlamb · Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 431 Location: Canada

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

In Spanish, wouldn't they say, "llamo a ella"? I think that's where the confusion in coming from with this group. They expect to translate everything, which is a bad habit I'm trying to break them of. But they think because they use an extra word in Spanish, English should be the same.

What about a sentence like "I talk to her"? In this case, "to" is required, or another word like "with".

Maybe this is one of those cases where the students will just have to accept that this is the way it is, and simply remember which verbs usually take "to" and which ones don't.

MO39 · Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject:

In Spanish "I call her" would be "La llamo" or perhaps "Le llamo", with no need to say "a ella" except for emphasis or clarity.

hlamb · Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 431 Location: Canada

Ok, I'm going to have to go back to my beginner Spanish text to review that bit of grammar. Obviously I have it wrong, as I thought saying "a ella" was necessary. Oh, well, it's good to be forced to do a bit of review now and then!

Thanks to everyone for the help. The students have accepted my explanation and moved on.

TheLongWayHome · Joined: 07 Jun 2006 Posts: 1016 Location: San Luis Piojosi

M@tt · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Location: here and there

this is a very confusing part of spanish because it seems like the personal 'a' rule is applied inconsistently by native speakers. also, if you are used to hearing a verb with personal objects all the times, later when you want to use it with an object pronoun you won't know whether it takes direct or indirect objects, because you've only been hearing it with 'a' and you don't know whether that's a preposition for an indirect object or simply a personal 'a'.

i won't even start on spanish reflexives, they're evil.

also don't expect to hear correct use of 'le' and 'les'. everywhere you look you will see them misused. in the glorieta de insurgentes there is a 30 foot-long billboard that says something about "dile a tus abuelos que..." and i asked several friends why it's not "diles a tus abuelos." some of them said it was correct to say 'dile' and others said it was incorrect. then on all the missing people photos it says 'le has visto' which is just blatanly wrong as it should be 'lo has visto.' that stuff drives me insane, it's worse than overuse of quotation marks.

which reminds me, i saw an ad the other day for "two" houses for sale. like maybe they weren't both for sale, but it certainly appears that there are two of them.
i swear, people!!