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shikushiku-boy
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Melbourne
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 Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:32 am Post subject: The mystery that passeth all understanding... |
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"For example, a study that involved 25 randomly selected foreign students - five each from the five largest represented foreign language groups (Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Persian, and Spanish) enrolled in special sections of freshman composition was conducted at the University of Southern California. In this study, Japanese students produced writings that were ranked as the worst in rhetorical competency, had the most errors, and collectively generated the shortest collective corpus." (Kroll, 1991)
"A mountain was in labour, sending forth dreadful groans, and there was in the region the highest expectation. After all, it brought forth a mouse..."
Horace |
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Sweetsee
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 2302
Location: ) is everything
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: |
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forget it 
Last edited by Sweetsee on Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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luckyloser700
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 308
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| Sweetsee wrote: |
No surprise there.
Paul says:
8. A lack of properly trained and qualified teachers. Thousands of native speakers teaching in Japan but the vast majority are teaching 'amateurs' as they lack proper training, certification and specialised knowledge about language teaching. |
Sweetsee, do you mean to say that that those native English speakers teaching in China are much more qualified than those teaching in Japan since the Chinese students scored better? Most native English speakers teaching in China are equally unqualified. A person holding a BS/BA in anything can teach at a university in China. The Middle East does have higher standards than Japan, I hear. I'm not sure about most Spanish-speaking countries.
But, to put this down as your main reason... ?
If you look at the main focus of the English education program in Japan, you'll see that it's mainly to get students to pass high school and university entrance examinations. Even though English is a required subject in Japan's junior and senior high schools, there just isn't a serious effort being made to help the students develop real-world English skills.
Last edited by luckyloser700 on Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:19 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Sweetsee
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 2302
Location: ) is everything
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| Nevermind, I am done with this mess. |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: Re: The mystery that passeth all understanding... |
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| shikushiku-boy wrote: |
| "For example, a study that involved 25 randomly selected foreign students |
This study had 25 students chosen at random? They based all these conclusions on five Japanese students? You can't draw any conclusions at all.  You must be one of Melbourne's finest. |
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Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| I know that you get a lot of flak here Sweetsee but I think you are taking lucky's post the wrong way. It does'nt seem mean spirited to me. Maybe could have done without the eye roll but I don't think he was challenging your remark just to be spiteful. |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| Sweetsee wrote: |
| forget it |
| Quote: |
| Please do not confront me with my failures, I have not forgotten them. Last edited by Sweetsee on Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Way to stick to your guns. 
P.S. Set the record straight. Are you a "dude"? |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Sweetsee wrote: |
| Nevermind, I am done with this mess. |
Huh? You second'ed it. |
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Sweetsee
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 2302
Location: ) is everything
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:45 am Post subject: |
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You are right Yawarakaijin, I didn't even read Lucky's post through, just that I almost can't handle it here anymore. Lucky pm'ed me and we sorted it but can you pm me and tell me more about the flak I catch?
I am fed up with it, I mean I am a Japan Horatio Algier story. Came here with nothing, got deported, came back and who knows what is next.
I know I posted some pretty stupid stuff, I know I can't organize my thoughts, and that is the reason I stay. I want to write. I want to keep at it until I can express myself in writing as concisely as some of my heros on this board.
Thanks for the kind words,
s |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Sweetsee wrote: |
You are right Yawarakaijin, I didn't even read Lucky's post through, just that I almost can't handle it here anymore. Lucky pm'ed me and we sorted it but can you pm me and tell me more about the flak I catch?
I am fed up with it, I mean I am a Japan Horatio Algier story. Came here with nothing, got deported, came back and who knows what is next.
I know I posted some pretty stupid stuff, I know I can't organize my thoughts, and that is the reason I stay. I want to write. I want to keep at it until I can express myself in writing as concisely as some of my heros on this board.
Thanks for the kind words,
s |
Sweetsee, I can offer some help. If you feel you need to express yourself, you should make use of the preview button instead of hitting the submit button quickly. Then read. Relax. Think about it. Wait. Correct. Repeat. We all looking forward to something more coherent, more often.  |
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Sweetsee
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 2302
Location: ) is everything
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:52 am Post subject: |
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And then what, I will be more like you? No thanks.
The only thing more annoying than your avatars, harranguing and name is the way you have to paste everything. Honestly, give it a rest. |
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Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: |
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I think the reason you get attacked so much Sweetsee is that you come across as a little needy in some of your posts. It's not an insult, just an observation.
I don't think the attacks would stop even if you started producing flawless posts. Some people just can't help but feel like they are entitled to attack someone who they view as being weak or inferior.
For all the crap that Canuck gives you I think his last piece of advice was valuable. Take your time, formulate your ideas more clearly, and if you still catch flak just try to ignore it. |
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shikushiku-boy
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Melbourne
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:15 am Post subject: |
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"In general, Japanese students have great difficulty in developing the level of English writing skills that is expected of a college student. This is borne out by the TOEFL Test of Writing English (TWE) results attained by Japanese. From August 1993 through May 1995, the Mean score of Japanese who took the TWE test ranked 115 out of 117 when compared to test takers from other countries. (ETS, 1996) Moreover, this English language learning problem extends to other language skill areas as indicated by the ranking of Japanese TOEFL test takers during July 1996 through June 1997. Among test takers from 166 countries that included 25 Asian countries, Japanese ranked 151 and 23 respectively. (ETS, 1997)"
Attack the data, not me. I'm not drawing any conclusions...God forbid! |
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Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Attack the data, not me. I'm not drawing any conclusions...God forbid![/quote]
I agree. |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| source? |
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