Job Discussion Forums

GabeKessel · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 150

I went into the Jobs Information Journal and read all this advice about : Leave Saudi, go to the UAE, etc.

Here is my scoop and why I think Saudi is still the best:

I have tried to go to the UAE but it is hard for me to get a job there. I do not know why. I have an MA in TESL and 19 years experience. I am 44 years old, US citizen, good health and all. I have applied at many jobs but it seems that it is much harder to get a job there. I sent my resume to big universities there and never ever heard from them.

I got only two job offers and the conditions were not so great. Not as good as what I had in Saudi. Smaller salaries, fewer benefits.

I appplied for a job at HCT and failed to pass the interview and at UGRU and never even heard from these.

I applied in Qatar and again salaries were much lower, and benefits were fewer. Plus there were fewer jobs, period. And most employers seemed lukewarm and reluctant to respond to my job inquiries with any regularity at all.

One job in Qatar offered me $24,000 a year and and the vacations were some 20+ days a year. I had now been making $43,000 a year in Saudi plus a car and the utilities were free. Vacations were 41 days a year.

I went to Kuwait and the same thing- "we pay only USD 2200 a month and if you do not like it, tough luck".

Now, every time I send my resume to a Saudi college or university, the response is immediate and very enthusiastic: " WELCOME!!!!" PLEASE COME NOW!!! WHEN CAN YOU START?? We will give you this and that and you can come and start working ASAP. The salary is great, the perks and all, a car for you to use, bonuses, etc..."

I know that Saudi is more dangerous but I spent four and a half years there and never had any big problems. I liked my job but most of all I liked the money I was being paid there. And I got along well with most people there.

Now, once you start talking about all these other countries in the Gulf, it does not seem to get less problematic for me- it gets *more* problematic-the biggest problem is that few people at any decent place want to hire me. And I have very good qualifications. I guess the competition is just too keen and there are not that many good jobs.

And it seems that everyone and his brother ( well, almost) would like to have a job in Dubai or Kuwait. Alcohol and dating seem to be important requirements for a lot of people. But in Saudi you can do it, too, if you really know the score.

I prefer Saudi and it also prefers me.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Employers outside KSA, including in other Arab countries, definitely have a prejudice against employing people who have worked in Saudi.

Cleopatra · Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:55 pm Post subject:

Certainly it is easier to get teaching jobs in KSA than in the other Gulf countries. Firstly, this is because KSA is several times bigger than the rest of the assorted Sheikhdoms put together, so there are that times as many jobs. Secondly, because of the bad press the Kingdom receives (deservedly or otherwise) particularly in the past few years, teachers are that much more reluctant to go there. It's a good old supply and demand sort of thing.

I agree that life in the K of SA isn't all that bad, if you have the right attitude and the right job (neither of which can be taken for granted!) Plus, there are still some very attractive packages on offer, particularly for qualified males, if you are prepared to live with the restrictions and the much-publicised "risks" of life there.

GabeKessel · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 150

Well, actually, in Kuwait you can date people of the opposite sex and many people brew their own booze- alcohol is banned but people who make their own are left alone. Women can drive and work in all kinds of managerial/teaching positions.

I have seen US.British teachers shack up with thier girlfriends with no one bothering them.

That is why salaries are lower. Kuwaiti school managers would love to hire more women, the blondER, the better. I satyed in Kuwait for one year, salaries were lower, expenses were higher, students, more unruly than in Saudi.

There did not seem to be a shortage of teachers, especially from the UK.

Sure, Kuwait is not Bangkok or Amsterdam but you will have far more competition for jobs and it is much easier to get fired from there than to get fired from the KSA.

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

When I was there I knew loads of girls who were there just for the social life.

Kuwait is one of the countries where when you get off the plane back to the West the girl says to the bloke "What does it feel like now to be poor?", and the bloke retorts "What does it feel like now to be ugly?".

Cleopatra · Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:42 pm Post subject:

GabeKessel · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 150

When I was in Q8 I saw that most Western women were fawned upon by numerous expat men. Since Q8y women are off limits to "kawajas" and non-Gulf people, even moderately good looking Western women were in high demand. I have even heard of fights erupting among expat men for the hand of a young British female teacher.

Filipina ladies were there too and fawned upon by various young Middle Eastern guys as well as Westerners. It was still easier to meet a Filipina than have an even remote hope of dating a British/US/Canadian/NZ lady.

spot · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11 Location: UAE

When I came to the UAE nearly 6 years ago after more than a dozen years in Saudi, I immediately felt a sea change. I loved my time in Saudi and moved to the UAE mainly for family reasons. In Saudi, I got into the culture, made tons of local + expat friends, and enjoyed my job immensely. In the UAE, I found a lot of heavy duty territorialism, politics, whitewashing and backstabbing. For every 1 negative experience I had in Saudi, I have had maybe 20 in the UAE. At my previous employer, several who had worked in Saudi were given warning letters for doing simple things that were normal in Saudi, such as following up a student who missed an exam (in a caring way). In Saudi, expats generally take care of each other, through thick and thin. In the UAE it's usually expats who will put the knife in your back. I have met very few ex-Saudi expats who had negative experiences in Saudi. Many have commented on how more professionally run and organized language programs are there. Of course, exceptions do exist and some prefer the freedom, beaches and pubs of the UAE. Fair enough, but if you're happy in Saudi, I'd stay there. Some friendly advice from one who has made four visits back to Saudi since he came to the UAE...

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

What strikes me is that the other States in the GCC are SO different from Saudi. And for me Saudi is BETTER !

If I wanted to live like a Californian Beach Bum why would I go to the ME ?

GabeKessel · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 150

What about Oman? Is it as bad as other GCC countries outside of Saudi?

Cleopatra · Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 11:31 am Post subject:

Interesting comments, Spot.

I've worked in KSA but I've never been to the UAE. As a single woman, I would welcome the chance to work in a less obsessively segregated environment, but other than that, the appeal of the UAE vis a vis KSA is not all that great for me. Obviously, as you say, for those who love the nightlife and other "Western" amenities, the UAE trumps the KSA anytime. As someone who has little interest in the above, however, they're not really a factor. Plus, I do think it would be strange to live in a country where only about 20% of the inhabitants are locals. Mind you, there's plenty that is strange about KSA too....!

"In Saudi, expats generally take care of each other, through thick and thin."

I must say I'm not sure if this is true. I think it may have been the case up to a few years ago, but it's been my experience that these days many (not all) KSA expats look out for number one, and, because people tend to stay here for only a few years, are not interested in cultivating friendships with others. Understandable perhaps, but still regrettable.

"Many have commented on how more professionally run and organized language programs are there."

I think that depends. Certainly KSA has more than its fair share of shoddily run "educational establishments". And while I don't speak from personal experience, I have reason to believe that the same can be said for the other Gulf countries too, whose "universities" are unlikely to put Oxford out of business any time soon. Unfortunately, however, KSA has a perhaps undeservedly poor reputation in this as in so many other areas, one which often unfairly impacts upon KSA vets who seek employment elsewhere.

GabeKessel · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 150

On a similar note- I just took another interview with a place in the UAE and they just sent me an email telling me that I did not pass- they had very many applicants and chose the best ones. Obviously too many people want to go and work there.

Sharjahmite · Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Posts: 10 Location: UAE

I have worked/lived in both Saudi and the UAE (I'm still in the UAE) and enjoyed both experiences. However, I definitely prefer it here in the UAE for a variety of reasons. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions about both places, but the comments about back-stabbing, noncollegiality, etc. seem more related to particular work environments than to differences between the countries themselves. I know there are some bad places to work at in the UAE, but the same is true about Saudi. The major difference is that it is really much more competitive here in the UAE. If you are getting negative responses to your job searches here, you might want to rework the resume, hone your interview skills or "upgrade" yourself somehow. I have been on hiring committees in both countries, and do agree there seems to be a slight predudice against longtime Saudi hands here in the UAE. The stereotype of the longtime Saudi vet seems to be a mid-aged or older man who can't get a job elsewhere due to a combination of misfit behavior or lack of professional development. Most who have worked in the magic kingdom will attest to the more-than-usual supply of misfit behavior which in other places might not be accomodated. In Saudi, as long as you show up on time, don't alienate the students and admin (this often simply means obeying the wasta norms), and don't talk publically about politics, religion, sexuality, etc., even the laziest or most eccentric behavior (both in and out of the classroom) will be tolerated. On the positive side, all the wacko goings-on in the Saudi workplace make for cheap entertainment and will provide years of anecdotes you will never find anywhere else. On the negative side, long-term association with such a work environment might hopelessly taint you for life. As for the lack of professional development, I was a member of a hiring committee (at arguably the most prestigious Saudi university in the kingdom) where the chair and his cronies on the committee made it a point to "weed out" candidates who revealed that they attended conferences or made presentations on the grounds that these were the kind of "trouble-makers that we can do without". I think it's safe to say that the "troublemaking" was seen as the possibility of bringing innovation or change into a "comfortable" workplace. I guess that's one of the big differences between Saudi and the UAE. I had a great time in Saudi, but it's a little like living in the land of the lotus-eaters (a lazy and pleasant life) which one partakes of at one's peril. In the UAE, evidence of professional development is not seen as a threat, but is in fact a necessary quality to make the final cut. The UAE (and some universities here...not all) is not afraid of change, in fact welcomes it. Of course, change is often uncomfortable and takes more effort to implement than just going with the status quo. The acceptance of things as they stand seems to be one of the most important qualities of an oldtime Saudi hand. Innovation in the classroom or at the program level is not seen as particularly desirable, in fact is seen as threatening and undesirable in most Saudi quarters. Mind you, this is simply a stereotype, but nevertheless the stereotype exists. To break out of the stereotype is not impossible, but it requires some "active" positioning on the part of someone from Saudi wanting to move on to the UAE. I (and many of my colleagues here in the UAE) have broken out of this Saudi stereotype, but not as passive candidates. Being a "good" employee in the Saudi sense will not take you far here in the UAE, but if your resume or CV shows that you have kept sharpening your teaching "edge" over time, it's likely you will do better in the UAE market.

GabeKessel · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 150

I am happy to report that I have finally been able to obtain a job in Oman that pays as much as a Saudi job would pay. It is at Dhofar Univeristy in Salalah and I am very happy with it.

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

Can someone tell me how much the average job in SA pays? I have heard about high paying jobs in the Middle East but the jobs ads for the Middle East on Dave's don't seem to pay a whole lot more than Japan and unless I could get $40,000+ I don't know if it is worth it to move to the Middle East.