Job Discussion Forums

[Gorm]

Sorry if this question has been posted many a time on here (I couldn't find anything similar going over the last few pages), but I would like input on what constitutes a fair contract from experienced FTs out there, and also what types of things signal a red flag.

Some specific questions regarding such:

Does "in a spirit of friendly cooperation" point to a bad contract? (I've read sth to this effect on one of the ESL advice sites).

Does it mean anything that a school gives you their and/or the FAO's cellphone number (rather than an office number) and hours to contact them?

18hrs per week - 5,000RMB per mo (Uni - Spoken English, occassional English assistance to Chinese teachers)
12hrs per week - 5,000RMB per mo (Uni - Spoken English, English Lit)
Can one be said to be better than the other? I know it may be subjective in context, but I've never personally taught English Literature and am not an English major, or does that not matter?

Contract issues I'm curious about (some are directly from contracts, but I shortened the wording a bit):

Breach penalty ($500-$2000USD) for either party failing to fulfil contract obligations.

Direct payment (salary is to be paid from the start date of work to the expiration of the contract) - Indirect Payment [no explanation given]

Utilities paid up to the amount of 650RMB per month, pro-rated.

Max. 18 work periods for basic spoken English course or 14-16 periods min for Writing, Reading, or Culture course involved every week, including evening classes and classes on weekends if required. (hmm...)

Entitled to the following holidays and festivals in China: New Year's Day, Spring Festival, May Day and other holidays stipulated by laws and regulations. (shouldn't they just say "4 weeks of holidays", etc? Are the holidays paid?)

Party A pays all documents requested by the government for Party B's legal stay and work in China, but Party B is to pay all fees for his/her visa and Residence Permit (amounting to approx 450RMB). (Why don't they pay it?)

The probation period shall be 60 days. (Another school contract has a period of 30 days...is there a difference?)

Others not covered in the contract are to be settled through friendly discussions to mutual benefits. (What would such be? Extra perks?)

Confirmation and change of every term of the appendix of the standard contract must be stipulated in written form through negotiation between the two parties. Any oral agreement will be regarded as invalid. (How are things negotiated if not orally? How do you get them in writing?)

Anyway, I hope my questions don't seem to vague and make sense...haven't gotten much sleep these past few days.

[hairuo]

SAFEA says that the schools should furnish the work visa and Foreign Experts Certificate. PM me and I will send you a contract example that ODWC uses with the schools they recruit for. Contracts should protect both parties rights. Not just the school.

[Sinobear]

A hackey-sack of questions!

"in a spirit of friendly cooperation" means that they'll be friendly as long as you cooperate.

You must be contactable 24/7. They will not answer their phone when they know you have a problem.

You will get the maximum hours as per the contract and the minimum pay.

Breach penalty - strike it out. You cannot/will not ever be able to get from the school said penalty (without great expenditure of time, money, and resources on your part).

The utilities provided are not bad, unless you'll be in a city that requires a lot of aircon use in the summer, or additional heating in the winter.

The school should foot the bill for your medical and visa.

Probation period? If they're hiring you from overseas, strike this out. If you're being hired locally, then accept it as standard.

Usually, you get all national holidays off (with pay). The Spring Festival, May, and October holidays are only three official days, with the allowance of a full week (or more) off. You will usually have to make up the non-official days off before/after the holiday.

Oral agreements are standard for the Chinese - but remember this: a Chinese businessperson will not make an agreement unless they're sure they're getting the better deal. Get it in writing - only after you've thought the deal/idea through thoroughly.

Don't worry too much, most contracts should have a 90-day clause for negotiation/renegotiation/cancellation. If you find your back (uncomfortably) against the wall once hired, you can always extricate yourself gracefully.

Good luck and cheers!

Disclaimer: I posted this based on my nine years in China without Roger's personal approval beforehand. The opinions stated above are indeed subject to flaming, ridicule, scorn and derision. Alternate opinions/universes do exist and therefore, feel free to scoff liberally at what I've opined.

[kev7161]

Well, I'm a little bored this afternoon (it's so FREAKIN' HOT outside!) so I'll tackle it (my opinions only, mind you):


Does "in a spirit of friendly cooperation" point to a bad contract? (I've read sth to this effect on one of the ESL advice sites). Make sure everything that you are responsible for is listed in your contract: hours you are expected to work, "extras" such as office hours or English corners, etc. Get a written schedule as soon as you are at the school. You can be friendly and you can cooperate, but you can also get taken advantage of if you are not careful.

Does it mean anything that a school gives you their and/or the FAO's cellphone number (rather than an office number) and hours to contact them? It's generally easier to contact someone via their cell phone than in their office. FAOs are often on the run doing this and that. But you should be able to contact your FAO at any time should an emergency arise.

18hrs per week - 5,000RMB per mo (Uni - Spoken English, occassional English assistance to Chinese teachers)
12hrs per week - 5,000RMB per mo (Uni - Spoken English, English Lit)
Can one be said to be better than the other? I know it may be subjective in context, but I've never personally taught English Literature and am not an English major, or does that not matter? Both are about average in China - -actually the 5000 for 12 hours a week is a little abvve. Be careful on "occasional English assistance" - how many hours a week is involved and what does it mean exactly? Ask those questions!

Contract issues I'm curious about (some are directly from contracts, but I shortened the wording a bit):

Breach penalty ($500-$2000USD) for either party failing to fulfil contract obligations. Normal clause. Just don't quit your job, ride it out until the end of contract OR, if the school is screwing you around, document everything - - dates, times, incidents and save those emails you sent complaining about the problem(s). Make sure you CYA against a breach penalty should you need to leave the school before contract end.

Direct payment (salary is to be paid from the start date of work to the expiration of the contract) - Indirect Payment [no explanation given] Indirect may mean they will deposit it into a bank account you set up in China. Ask them to clarify.

Utilities paid up to the amount of 650RMB per month, pro-rated. If you go beyond 650, you have to pay the difference. Ask for those receipts if you are suspicious of this. Prorated means for a partial month, they'll pay less . . . I guess.

Max. 18 work periods for basic spoken English course or 14-16 periods min for Writing, Reading, or Culture course involved every week, including evening classes and classes on weekends if required. (hmm...) Again, clarify what they are wanting. How many evenings? How many weekend classes? Every weekend? Both Saturday and Sunday? (weekends don't mean much here - - I'd probably rather work a weekend and have weekdays free - - less traffic and crowds to deal with on weekdays AND I get a seat on the bus!)

Entitled to the following holidays and festivals in China: New Year's Day, Spring Festival, May Day and other holidays stipulated by laws and regulations. (shouldn't they just say "4 weeks of holidays", etc? Are the holidays paid?) All schools are different in how many days off they give you and whether or not you get paid your full salary during holidays. Clarify this with the school in which you are interested.

Party A pays all documents requested by the government for Party B's legal stay and work in China, but Party B is to pay all fees for his/her visa and Residence Permit (amounting to approx 450RMB). (Why don't they pay it?) This is not normal and I wouldn't work for this school. I thought schools were required to pay for all of these documents, but I could be wrong.

The probation period shall be 60 days. (Another school contract has a period of 30 days...is there a difference?) Some schools have probation periods, others don't. Sometimes a lesser salary during probabtion. It could be good for you if you don't like the school. Make sure the probation works both ways. You can decide to leave the school if you don't like it without worrying about a breach penalty.

Others not covered in the contract are to be settled through friendly discussions to mutual benefits. (What would such be? Extra perks?)
Make sure EVERYTHING you are looking for is in your contract before you sign it. No "friendly discussions". Airfare reimbursements, travel allowances, end-of-contract bonuses, living arrangements (furnishings as well) -- anything you can think of, ask for it to be put into the appendix of your contract. You may regret it later if you don't.

Confirmation and change of every term of the appendix of the standard contract must be stipulated in written form through negotiation between the two parties. Any oral agreement will be regarded as invalid. (How are things negotiated if not orally? How do you get them in writing?) Basically, once the contract is signed, sealed and delivered, you pretty much have to live with what you've gotten. Sometimes if it's a good, friendly school, you can make some adjustments later, but you are just a commodity to them. You are not their "friend" you are an employee. Ask all your questions and be satisfied with the answers before making a decision.

My advice is over . . .

[tw]

[Roger]

I would have written the same reply as cynobear.

One addition: the O.P. is asking whether different jobs merit different appraisals: one position is for a teacher to teach English Literature; that position requires fewer contact hours a week.

If you have no teaching experience, I would refrain from accepting this. Teaching literature is difficult enough in a western classroom; it is much more so in a Chinese English classroom!

[Sinobear]

I should thank you, Roger, I'm actually thinking of changing my handle to Cynosure:

NOUN:

1. An object that serves as a focal point of attention and admiration.
2. Something that serves to guide.

And I thought you didn't like me

Cheers!

[chengdude]

Bored Kev7161 has it covered, especially the clarify, clarify, and more clarify. I'll just add that, unfortunately, making teachers pay for documents is becoming increasingly common among government schools, which are under the gun to cut corners and pinch pennies wherever they can. 650 RMB for your utilities should cover things, but again, clarify everything that's supposed to cover. I'm probably a bit thick, but I don't really get this paying you a subsidy for utilities, which is also becoming quite common among government schools. Either way, they're paying, so it would seem nothing more than creative accounting...but perhaps that's exactly what it's supposed to be in the inscrutable world of the danwei.

[voodikon]

you guys are so snipey. thanks for the giggles.