Job Discussion Forums

[eek]

As this is asia related I am posting here instead of the newbie section. Opinions will be MOST appreciated, both male and female, but being female some female perspective would help a lot.

ok some background info (pls dont fall asleep yet guys!) 33 yr old scottish female (v mild accent ), lived in UK, Europe and S.America. Honours Degree in Fine Art, taught art to adults & children for many years. Decided on a change of career last year after splitting up with partner, moved into cg art, but alas, miss travelling, miss teaching, love culture shock (but not always hah), disgruntled by London and want a change of scenery and some sunshine.

Thing is, I have never been to S.E.Asia, but always wanted to. I'm very green on the teaching overseas malarky and wish to train for a tefl or CELTA in poss thailand or ? Looking for advice from experienced teachers esp from a female perspective. Some forums scare the bejesus out of me in the sense that they go on about how a western female in certain parts of asia will not have any kind of life because men, western and asian alike, will find them repulsive! That they arent respected and given lower wages etc etc. Im not to make my fortune (but i do have to earn!) and im SO not out to bag a man, but doesnt mean to say I dont wish to have enjoyment both in work and socially. I dont need my ego fed, but I dont particularly wanna feel crap about myself everyday either. I know there is a seedier side to certain parts of asia, I dont take a moral high ground regarding this. Im out for a rewarding experience, hopefully can save some cash instead of using up my safety net of savings and hopefully make some interesting (in a good way) friends along the way. I intend to test the water regardless of what is said, but i wish attempt to choose the right first place wisely with as much background info good and bad as possible.

Im thinking maybe my best bet is to do the CELTA in Thailand then take a lil time travelling. I'm doing this solo, so I will need to get clued up on what I should and shouldnt do.

What I mainly want to prepare myself for is what life will be like for a 30ish yr old female in dif parts of asia based on peoples personal experiences. Im not ugly, but i dont class myself as drop dead gorgeous either. Brown hair, blue eyes, 5'7",size 10 (i'l prolly be huge by asian standards tho in any case so i guess blending in wont be an option). Im pretty laid back (or so i think) but do work hard. Do you recon im gonna be disillusioned pretty fast, or have an enjoyable experience? ( i know it depends on the individual though, but like i said, i wish to be somewhat prepared).

Heres hoping this thread wont die.

cheers all who take the time to help.

(p.s thinking of visiting philippines on my own too..is that a disastrous idea? Already know a little tagalog. Love the country from afar, but im only hearing negative stories atm.)

[sigmoid]

[eek]

Great advice, great links.

MUCH appreciated sigmoid!

Im considering that ill do the CELTA in bangkok for a month then take a short break to have a feel for where i want to teach for a year. I was thinking to go to Hanoi and Saigon and really want to visit Cebu. Actually i love filipinos (the few i know) but im not sure if i'll love it all when i actually go there for myself. Id like to visit a lot of philippines actually, but i hear many mixed reports on how safe/unsafe it is. I may go to taiwan and korea (but read that korea isnt so great for teaching in..again i wouldnt know).

Any tips on these areas (or others u recommend) esp phils and vietnam as I know people from nam and philippines (and they have family there so gives me a point of contact too). Of course friends have given me advice on phils and nam but not from a westerner teaching perspective.

[kuberkat]

eek

From your post it is obvious that you are intelligent and self-reliant and can make it anywhere. You will love SEA , and traveling a bit after getting your CELTA will give you a chance to choose a place to stay. During your course you are likely to find out more from local employers. SEA is not the highest paying past of Asia, but it does offer quality of life.

BTW, I don't think western women are considered quite repulsive, just kinda asexual. It didn't usually bother me until Friday night!

[eek]

tnx kuberkat.

[kuberkat]

Hello again, Eek.

Everywhere I have been in EAsia, there was no shortage of new faces keen to make friends. Many local people are keen to practice their English, if nothing else. (Do be aware that they might also want to you to buy something: sometimes this is worthwhile, sometimes not.) Travelers and foreign workers are often wonderful once you get to know them, though many are so distant at first that it might not happen. You might be distant yourself after a while - I know I am.

So social life there will be if you want it, but be willing to be flexible about the form it takes. Many intercultural friendships do not go far beyond discussing cultural differences, which can become tedious. Also, friendships with other expats or travelers may run deep on occasion, but I for one occasionally miss the depth of an established friendship.

As to love, the phenomenon rather harshly referred to as "yellow fever" will rule out your having to kiss too many frogs. Any western male in Asia who is willing to get to know a foreign female is probably a prince anyway, since he will be after your substance rather than your blind adoration or shapely rear.

I must add that I always felt professionally respected by my male colleagues- and as you will see, they make up 70% of Asia TEFLers. At least harrassment was no problem- though my female Asian colleagues may disagree. They were often discussed like slabs of meat. And frankly, m'dear, I'd rather inhabit the androgynous twilight zone of the western woman in Asia.

(As a postscript I have had very thorough ugly duckling rehab since moving to the Middle East, where, though happily ever after may not be on the cards, any western woman is considered a goddess. And that's happily ever after enough for me!)

Feel free to PM me if I can help out at all.

[Calories]

Don't worry about the men, you'll probably be repulsed by a lot of western men who are teaching here, especially the 40 or 50 something creeps with ex wives and kids back home and young locals for wives and their second or third family. They'll probably hit on you too and then bitch about western women when you tell 'em how creepy they are or to go home to their wives.

[kuberkat]

I hate to say it, but the international English industry is not exactly known for its attraction of alpha males. To put it very mildly.

How is it that so many of the women in TEFL are together, smart, dedicated to their jobs and yet have other thriving interests, while so many of the men do neither their jobs nor anything else with zest, just floating from year to year in a haze of mediocrity?

Please, please please somebody prove me wrong!

[wailing_imam]

I have taught in 4 Asian countries and visited plenty more.

Here is a list of countries that I think would be good for a single woman to work in:

Vietnam, China (+HK), Singapore, Japan

Here is a list of countries that I think would be thoroughly headwrecking to be a teaching single woman:

Indonesia, Thailand, South Korea

[kuberkat]

Hey, thanks, W-I... perhaps you could post that on the newbie forum... and tell us why...?

I still do think that ultimately it depends on the person. So many places I have visited have turned out completely contrary to my expectations. Enough for me to see how my own attitudes and actions play a part, too.

[eek]

ow ow..yes would really like to know your reasons why also.

p.s many thanks to all so far for your comments..its very interesting.

After reading so many blogs from male and female perspectives I have to say I am actually quite glad to be a female going to S.E.Asia. It seems a lot of good westerners with good intentions feel the brunt of the sex tourist/sexpat stigma. One guy infact has a daughter who is half thai half english and when he goes out with her he often has men come up to him and ask how much he is paying for her etc. Sad really, must be difficult to maintain your dignity. Also its seems a lot of happily married men get stigma if their wives are from the thai regions where their skin is darker (they say many bar girls are from these outlying towns), so automatically many think the girl is a bargirl and disrespects him and his wife. One man said he had trouble booking into a hotel with his wife. It was pre-booked double. They appartently hinted that no girls were allowed in the room. If his wife had been caucasian im pretty sure their would be no questions asked. (again this is only from what i have read, apologies if it seems incorrect)

if this is in fact the case, at least as a western woman in bangkok I wont have the instant judgment of being a crude farang looking for easy sex. Must be a difficult situation for a lot of good intentioned men out there.

Thankfully I am not out looking for love, or sex for that matter, im looking forward to focusing on cultural experiences and gaining new friendships. Had a horrible break-up 18months ago with my partner of 8 years, men, for now, definately not on the cards

[pokey2658]

My experiences in Asia particularly China has not been great. I came here with my husband of 16 years. We sold the house cars and furniture. We quit are jobs. We were looking to do this for the long term. We are in our 40�s.

After a few months of the normal culture shock. My husband found that I am not as tiny in body shape or as willing to please, as the women that pursue him, between finding out about an affair and the prostitutes. We are finished.

I don�t know if Western man can keep it in there pants in Asia or if there is just to much temptation.

[kuberkat]

Ouch. I admire your courage in sharing this story, pokey: there are many, many more women out there who have been in similar situations. Expat life in general has been known to strain any relationship, but East Asia is particularly brutal.

I actually decided against telling my tale of woe here, but perhaps I can try to match pokey's courage with my Oprah-worthy tear-jerker. I was single in Taiwan for two years and very happy. Went out casually with a few guys there, which was enough for me. After a long trip I returned with a man, a fine man from my own country, who had asked me to marry him. He was employed on the strength of my reference and we worked at the same school. Things went very well at first- we were still madly in love, after all- until the enormous pressures started to mount. I had 40 contact hours per week: good money but awfully stressful. Being surrounded by what I perceived at the time to be exotic stick insects, I started to diet fanatically: one meal a day aided by pills and potions, and 90 minutes of taxing exercise every morning. By the end of the day, was hardly a tigress in the sack. He was very loyal and devoted, but these facts left me feeling unworthy and whatnot. Add to the poison gumbo the fact that an incompetent but ravishing local female colleague hated my guts enough to hit me where it hurt the most: she started publicly flirting the absolute pants off him. He was still extremely supportive of me and consistently adoring, but because I was becoming suspicious and hypersensitive, I was a downright pain in the neck. Even to myself. In addition to the pressures of work, this was just too much for me. I spent every one-day weekend in tearful fits of exhaustion and self-destruct. No matter how much I cared about my job and my love, I left the relationship and the country.

Now I wake up every morning and know how much I have to be grateful for. I live in a clean, nature-rich country with a low population of kind people. I do well at a job that does not take advantage of me, but rewards me professionally, materially and personally. I have free time to pursue my interests, have fun and relax. I have friends. And the cherry on top is that now I am the one who is considered a perfectly proportioned exotic beauty. Just like every other Western woman.

And she lived happily ever after. Can we have some harp music, please?

[pokey2658]

It sounds like your doing great now. What county are you in? Are they looking for more women teacher? I could use a boast in my confidence and self-esteem.

[eek]

It is very brave of you both to post such intimate stories.

I also worry that i will end up having a similar tale to tell at the end of it all, but well..such is life I guess...

I wish you both much happiness.

I would also like to know where you are based now kuberkat..Oman? Maybe after my fix of working in asia ill come to need exactly the kind of place you are!